HG repair requirements

MikeT · Unread post by **MikeT** » 08 May 2008, 21:16

Excellent if they do refitting too, I didn't realise that! I thought it might just be a PSA design but that ad infers other cars use the same clips?

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 09 May 2008, 06:47

MikeT wrote:
citrojim wrote:That little "Lazy C" spanner I've spoken of in the past is a handy little thing
I haven't recovered to try again but I obviously don't have the right tool for this bolt or I'm not getting the angle I need - hard to tell when you can't see or feel your way, I can't even confirm it is a 13mm.

So what's this spanner look like Jim, I might have to get one?

They're called "Obstruction Wrenches" Mike. Never knew that until I went looking for them

See them here

It is catagorically a 13mm bolt....

lexi · Unread post by **lexi** » 09 May 2008, 08:49

I got mine from here.
http://www.baconsdozen.co.uk/tools/spanners.htm

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 09 May 2008, 20:10

if my memory serves me wright(that dont often happen), i have undun this orible bolt usung a deep 13mm socket, a short extention aprox 3" long and a ratchet,
regards malcolm

MikeT · Unread post by **MikeT** » 22 May 2008, 16:38

I get the feeling Citroen have revised their manifold design a few times since Haynes wrote their guides. There is no way in the world a socket will go on this nut. There is a window from below that allows it to be loosened by several turns with an open ender (before it goes out of reach again) then I think the idea is you remove the remaining inlet manifold studs and lift it up and off leaving that bolt in place. The only way that bolt will come out completely is if I slide the exhaust manifold along the studs to reveal the bolt head again. But the exhaust/turbo is holding the manifold firmly against the head

Unfortunately I can't get three of the four inlet manifold studs out. There's inadequate thread to use two original nuts as locknuts. I had a couple of slim/thin nuts that go on nicely but I can't get a purchase on the inner nut without catching the outer too. And even then, there's no room to lever a spanner anyway. I originally removed the nuts with a wrench and socket so if a stud extractor is no bigger then they might work but do they damage the stud in any way?

So, for now, I'm stuck. I think my best chance is to disconnect the exhaust but the manifold flange connecting the turbo has seized bolts

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 22 May 2008, 19:55

Oh dear Mike

You are meeting every obstacle known on this job

You are very unlucky. the first one I did was in a scrapyard up to my eyes in muck and bullets and it gave up the struggle without too much of a fight...

I used thinner nuts to get the studs out but they were not half-nuts by any means. As you say, they must have revised some essential elements of the design for the MK2.

You are right that the bottom bolt on the inlet manifold only needs loosening.

I think the time has come to investigate removing the head complete with manifolds perhaps.

It should work but it'll be heavy and it would be an advantage if you could remove the turbo from the exhaust manifold. Can you get reasonable access to the turbo mounting bolts? My brain has seized up and cannot recall what access is like.

You may even be able to lift the head complete with manifolds and turbo but it'll be awkward and heavy.

MikeT · Unread post by **MikeT** » 22 May 2008, 20:14

citrojim wrote:I think the time has come to investigate removing the head complete with manifolds perhaps.

Doh! I didn't really think/explore this option but I'll try stud removal again with some slightly fatter nuts. I was beginning to think engine out was the best option! I feel a Haynes burning coming on

Otherwise, if I'm to leave the manifolds on I need to defeat the seized turbo flange bolts. Looks like the nuts are topside - least chance of access/leverage unless the inlet manifold is off

It's not as bad as it seems - I could do with a smaller wrench and shorter spanners etc but the slow pace is twofold. Firstly, I like to study the layout - just look and think - and that can take a long long time

Secondly, as you know, I suffer a weak back and certain contortions will cripple me for days (last time was over a week

) but, frustrating as it is to me, I know it's only a temporary setback. This means an hour job can take me three and that might only be a rate of 30 mins per day

Unread post by **RichardW** » 23 May 2008, 07:55

I removed the head from a BX TD complete with manifolds and turbo. I wouldn't recommend it on your own - especially if you have a dicky back - it's pretty heavy, and damned awkward*. The BX was a bit 8) difficult as there wasn't really enough room to get the turbo out between the block and fire wall - but this could have been made easier by propping the engine off the firewall rather than hanging it back on the engine mount. There is no way I could have got the centre bolt out of the inlet manifold on mine - I only got it out with the head on the bench by first removing the exhaust and turbo, and then getting the stilsons on the bolt! I did find that the EM studs were only finger tight in the head though - might be easier to get out than you think.

Thought: check that you can access all the head bolts with the inlet manifold in place - on the BX some at the LH side were difficult to access under the IM - they had to be left in place loose till the head was on the bench, and then the new head bolts fitted before the head went back in the car.

*although a later engine with bolt on covers should be easier, as on the older style engine with bolt on covers you have to manoeuver the head sideways to get the camshaft out of the front plate.

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 23 May 2008, 09:01

i agree with Richard head with manifold attached is very heavy, also if fitted on re/fitting the head you risk scouring the head face as the hole lump is unwealdy, so it is very hard to aim the head precicley without causing damage to the head matting face
regards malcolm

lexi · Unread post by **lexi** » 23 May 2008, 09:27

With a bad back you couldn`t pick a worse thing to do than strain over a low motor for ages.

MikeT · Unread post by **MikeT** » 23 May 2008, 20:33

Outlining the possible re-assembly problems I may face is getting way ahead of me!

I've come to the conclusion the inlet manifold should come off first but that requires the studs to come out

They will come out, I've made my mind up, but they're resisting all attempts so far. Would loctite help the nuts lock together as all I seem to accomplish is undoing both nuts instead of it taking the stud with it?

With the car sitting on axle stands, it's not such a low stoop into the engine bay thankfully, and I do have a spare pair of hands in reserve when needed, no worries there.

MikeT · Unread post by **MikeT** » 24 May 2008, 17:49

citrojim wrote:Have a trolley jack under the exhaust downpipe to support the mainifold/turbo assembly and all will be fine.

I think I've found another revision.. There is one brace bar holding the turbo to the block and I'm sure I saw a second turbo brace but unsure what it fastened to exactly.