Citroen C5 2.0i 16v auto al4 handbrake problem

[GiveMeABreak]

Not sure Mike, officially they say it's integrated and difficult to see what's under the cylindrical Motor as to how it is assembled.

[thundermaster]

So we're waiting for AinurC5X7 to come up with something, so we'll move accordingly, because indeed the part works very well, except for the messages (when they appear).

[AinurC5X7]

I tried to read the Bosch ECU with the Kess V2, but apparently the Kess V2 can't communicate well. I got my gearbox muddled up just from reading the ID. Pity...it was so easy with the XJ.

I've done some searching, and it's confirmed that for the 1.6 thp Bosch ECU (17.4.2), Kess V2 cannot communicate. Apparently Gallato can, but I don't have that system yet.

I thought I'd bricked my gearbox as it went into safe mode and only 3 and reverse gear worked. Thankfully, after clearing the DTC with diagbox, all function returned. Phew!

I managed to fine a local tuner that advertises that they do remaps on Peugeots with same engine. I might get them to try to flash to delete DTCs. Waiting for their reply.

[thundermaster]

My engine is the 2.0i 16v 140 hp petrol. Do you think I can ask someone who specializes in chiptuning if there is anything they can do?

[thundermaster]

A NEW OBSERVATION FROM LAST NIGHT!

When I turn the engine off and turn the key to full off, I immediately turn the key back to position 1 to re-energize, without starting the engine. Then I take out the key.
When I get back in the car, I turn the key to position 1 (power), then to position 0 (everything goes off), then back to position 1 and start). All warnings go out again, even after a short stop!

[AinurC5X7]

I have experienced this before, but have never been able to consistently replicate it. I will try your method.

By the way, in another thread, I have had some success getting the park brake fault/ anti rollback error to NOT appear after shutdown by changing the configuration of the BSI and remove secondary parking brake in the list of ECUs present.

Interestingly, it doesn't remove the EPB as ECU detected during a global test, but at least the error message doesnt appear anymore (at shutdown), and the EPB still works manually.

[lenny1972]

I have experienced this before, but have never been able to consistently replicate it. I will try your method.

By the way, in another thread, I have had some success getting the park brake fault/ anti rollback error to NOT appear after shutdown by changing the configuration of the BSI and remove secondary parking brake in the list of ECUs present.

Interestingly, it doesn't remove the EPB as ECU detected during a global test, but at least the error message doesn't appear anymore (at shutdown), and the EPB still works manually.

What about modify again the BSI configuration and tell that the EPB is now installed? It will be interesting to understand if the BSI - in this way - will be forced to put itself in a "scanning" mode and will be ready to recognised/accept the new EPB.... Something like the pairing procedure for some BT devices.....Give it a try

[thundermaster]

So now you've completely gotten rid of the messages? And if so, in what way?

[AinurC5X7]

I have kept the BSI setting as not having secondary parking brake, and so far, I don't have the parking brake fault/ and anti rollback error after every ignition shutdown.

However, I have turned on again the hill assist feature in the ESP configuration. This results in me getting the ESP/ ASR fault if after an engine shutdown, and less than 15 minutes, I restart the car. Car otherwise drives normal ie suspension doesn't go hard as in safe mode.

I have found a way to get rid of the ESP/ASR fault when doing short trips. Start the car as usual, wait for the ESP ASR fault to flash then turn key one step anti clockwise to ignition only (engine turns off, but dash lights still on), then instantly turn back on ignition and start the car. It usually gets rid of the fault and confirmed by pressing the check button.

I don't think the ESP and BSI will ever communicate with the new parking brake. When I use an icarsoft Fr version 3 to look at the EPB details, the part number appears to be one designed for the Peugeot 508.

I believe the Citroen BSI and ESP just wasn't designed to communicate with this EPB even though their badged as under the same PSA group.

Anyway, going to faults, it's always permanent communication fault between EPB and BSI and ESP.

With this workaround, I'm for now just living with it.

In summary, disable EPB in BSI, car works faultlessly no error as long as car is not restarted for at least 15 minutes. If restart is necessary immediately, then do the start engine, wait for fault to appear, quickly off, then instantly go to ignition, then start to eliminate the fault.

[GiveMeABreak]

I think I have mentioned in the past, that the Peugeot 508 has a very similar looking parking brake (almost identical), but they are NOT the same and have different part numbers, so plausible why they are not communicating properly.

[lenny1972]

I think I have mentioned in the past, that the Peugeot 508 has a very similar looking parking brake (almost identical), but they are NOT the same and have different part numbers, so plausible why they are not communicating properly.

Marc in my case the second-hand parking brake came from another Citroen C5 (and was checked by the Citroen official workshop to be fully compliant with my car ...I provided them with my car VIN and the VIN of the car the parking brake was taken from)...so no Peugeot/Citroen compatibility issue...but my parking brake has the identical issues of the one marked Peugeot...

[GiveMeABreak]

So there is still doubt then in this case - as you cannot be 100% sure the second hand one from another C5 is itself genuine! Citroen mechanics CANNOT determine the internal software / programming of the EPBs, so looks and part numbers on units as we know can be fake.

If you were to fork out the £1300 + on a new genuine Citroen EPB, I suspect you would NOT have any of the issues.

There's another post on this from another member being sold a puppy by a seller of a handbrake for either C5 and 508 saying they are the same but they are NOT the same and have different parts as said. If they were exactly the same, PSA would use an identical part number as they do on all other parts regardless of the marque.

All these issues appear to stem from aftermarket handbrake sellers or non Citroen genuine parts orders or second hand used parts from vehicles where the history of the part cannot be guaranteed as new or genuine themselves.

[asaf400]

Hello everyone, I'm glad I came across this thread,
Very informative, I now have a few options to test myself, as just 2 days ago,
Me and my Dad bought him a C5 X7 (RD-RFJ-AL4), now we each have 1 Xantia, and 1 C5 X7

But, on his, after driving for about 30 minutes, the EPB sytem Fault and Anti-rollback system fault appeared on the dash,
in the service history of the car, the previous owner also 'fixed' a stuck EPB,
but not at the dealership, but a regular garage that knows how to handle PSA cars..

Another observesion, is after stopping to refuel, when I set-off from the pump, I delibiretly did not dis-engage/release the EPB Manually,
As in my car, upon slight pressing of the accelerator pedal, the EPB automatically releases, but in his car, my dad's, while it did release it, it also immidietly caused the fault to appear.

His VIN is: VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

Diagbox reports:
U1313 Fault: absence of communication with the ESP ECU
Properties From . Distant .
Status . Temporary
Characterisation of the fault. Not characterised

U1208 Fault absence of communication with the engine management ECU and the hybrid management ECU(if the hybrid management ECU is present)
Properties From . Distant .
Status . Temporary
Characterisation of the fault. Incorrect value received

U2000 Fault in receipt of the main triggering message by the built-in systems interface
Properties From . Distant .
Status . Permanent fault
Characterisation of the fault. Not characterised

The car also has an Android (8 ) multimedia headunit fitted, so currently as I understand these are my options:

1. First, I already cleared all the faults from all the systems, every ECU has been cleared,
So now, when there's a fault, we'll know it 'fresh' and 'permanent'.

2. We reconfigured the BSI ECU to disable:

• Presense of Multimedia functionality
• Presense of RD4
• Presense of CD Changer - was already disabled.
• Braking maintained (by the ESP) for 2 seconds when performing a hill start

Now we need to test if it comes back, if and when it does:

3. Disconnect the Android headunit and clear faults once again and check if fault returns

3.5 Reconnect an original RD4 + Original Screen (from my car) to his car [I would need to flash his VIN on my old MFD if I go through with this, is that possible using Diagbox?]

4. Try to Re-Calibrate the EPB, it may have been been properly done when it was replaced or fixed

5. if all else fails, buy a new EPB, @GiveMeABreak what would be the part number for my VIN?

6. Check the wiring between the EPB and the ESP ECU?

The car operates fine, and the EPB is functional as at engine start there's no fault, and also I think after engine off, there's no fault,
It's a random fault that appears during operation.

Edit #1: Rephrase
Edit #2: Added Summary
Edit #3: Point 6
Edit #4: Added DocBackup article - hope that it's okay

[AinurC5X7]

Should try to also remove the EPB ECU in the list of ECUs in the BSI configuration.

This will probably remove the parking brake fault/ anti rollback fault, and maintain manual operation of the EPB.

Yes, perhaps the current EPB is not the 'original' too.

Waiting to get lucky on the original EPB, as at 1300 pounds, that's 1/3 the cost of a C5 X7 in my country

[asaf400]

Should try to also remove the EPB ECU in the list of ECUs in the BSI configuration.

This will probably remove the parking brake fault/ anti rollback fault, and maintain manual operation of the EPB.

Yes, perhaps the current EPB is not the 'original' too.

Waiting to get lucky on the original EPB, as at 1300 pounds, that's 1/3 the cost of a C5 X7 in my country

Yeah same here,
Original PSA parts are between 2x and 6x the cost of aftermarket parts from any other manufacturer, Mapco, INA, Febi Bilstein, SKF, Valeo, BOSCH, Gates, Dayco, TOPRAN, etc..

Yeah, My dad doesn't like using PB, so if the problem comes back now, we will disable it all together,
I reckon that's done by changing the parameter "Secondary parking brake: Present + Rear" to Absent..