HG repair requirements

[MikeT]

Ok, I exaggerated a bit. With both arms as if rowing, I had to yank like billy-o on my long torque wrench, feet dug into the curb like a tug-o-war pull!

And where is that coolant hose at the rear, cambelt end of the engine? I've yet to find it

I suspect I'm going to have fun (not) getting the turbo hoses off, I can only see one and that's not very accessable owing to the orientation of the jubilee clip nuts. Would it be helpful if I undid the manifold downpipe (spring-loaded jobbie where the brillo-pad gasket lives) and pull the turbo out completely? Two reasons I ask; first, I'd like to get a close look at the turbo and secondly while driving, I could hear the turbo whine just like my previous xantia - that was down to said gasket leaking.

And why on earth does Haynes say I need to remove the accu sphere?

[CitroJim]

And why on earth does Haynes say I need to remove the accu sphere?

One of lifes little mysteries Mike... I didn't even remove it when I did a clutch... It's well out of the way for a head job.

Sorry, the hose is on the back of the head, not the block. It's at the bellhousing end. In fact, before you'll see it, you'll need to remove the vacuum pump (be prepared for an oil spillage and recover the O rings). The spigot is almost lost inamongst the exhaust manifold and has one of the heater matrix pipes connected to it. I should have said to remove the vacuum pump in my last post. Whilst you're there, remove the fast idle assembly from the inlet manifold and also remove the EGR and fast idle vacuum electrovalves on their bracket from the bulkhead. Not strictly necessary but every little bit removed really aids access.

To get the turbo outlet hose jubilee clip off, you are going to have to get a long, thin 7mm socket up there. I have a 7mm nut driver (looks like a long screwdriver with a 7mm socket on the end). Once again, this is were a 1/4" drive socket set with a long extension comes in very handy.

[MikeT]

Sorry, the hose is on the back of the head, not the block. It's at the bellhousing end.

Haynes mean left when they say right? Until this hose removal procedure, Haynes had differentiated by refering to either the "gearbox end" or the "cambelt end" of the engine, but now, they decide this hose is on the "left end" of the engine. Guess where I was looking? I would have found it in the end, of course - might have been when I was trying to pull the head out the bay, snagging on something, but I would have found it.

In fact, before you'll see it, you'll need to remove the vacuum pump .... remove the fast idle assembly from the inlet manifold

I already got my sights on that pump coming off, there is wet staining around that area and it's not the breather above. I shall probably be forced to remove a lot more than most people would bother with for the sake of better access - the less strenuous the work, the longer my back will let me play

And Haynes strikes again! - it doesn't mention the fast idle cable support bracket bolted onto the inlet manifold

remove the EGR and fast idle vacuum electrovalves on their bracket

Like my previous Xantia, I think both valves have failed already so I'm eager to pull them out for testing - then throwing away

Roll on tomorrow.

[MikeT]

Haynes strikes again. While the left side of the engine means the gearbox end, the left side of the radiator means the alternator side

I made a good start today but met an impasse - unable to get the air inlet trunking to turbo clip undone. I didn't have a 7mm spanner in my tool kit though I may have one in my electronic toolkit, just need to dig it out. From what I can see, it actually looks relatively easy to remove the turbo completely and judging by the gunk at the inlet, it would be foolish not to at least clean it.


This is the sight I was met with as I pulled the connector off the inlet manifold (more pictures in my blog)




You probably cannot tell but that is 10mm at it's thickest - the diameter of the opening is 50mm. Obviously this restricts airflow but I'm now wondering how much it could affect distribution through the individual runners and what effect that may have.

By this alone, I would strongly advise everyone to disable their EGR's if possible.

Happy Bank Holiday weekend to one and all.

[MikeT]

Have a trolley jack under the exhaust downpipe to support the mainifold/turbo assembly and all will be fine.

Another little tip: The bolt on the inlet manifold that the BoL tels you not to remove (the one in the centre between cyliners 2 and 3). Do the opposite and remove it. It'll make life easier.

Just a note: There's a support bracket on the turbo so I don't see why (as of yet) the exhaust needs to be supported from underneath until the turbo is unbolted from the downpipe.

I'm having difficulty locating the last inlet manifold nut. My fingers cannot reach in far enough and I've even tried taking some photos but have drawn a blank. I've blindly inserted 10mm, 11mm, 12mm and 13mm sockets but failed to get any purchase whatsoever.

I'll have a go at removing the turbo first, tomorrow. Everything looks accessible except the top oil feed nut which is obscured by the inlet manifold

[CitroJim]

Mike,

I take it you're trying to remove the inlet manifold as the inlet manifold has to come off first. If so, I guess you are having trouble with the centre bolt marked as "B" in the figure 15.6 on BoL page 4B.14. This one is a tad tricky and I cannot remember which spanner I used now. I only recall that it is 13mm and its a bit of a I have a feeling I got a slim ring in there. Speaking of feeling, that is all you can do. You cannot see it!

Leave the turbo on the exhaust manifold unless you have very good reason to remove it. There is then no need to disconnect oil lines. Believe me, you will need the jack under the exhaust.

Good work so far Mike. I love the EGR crud you've found. Don't wory about what it's like on the valves, you'll find it quite soft. Bizarrely, you'll find lots of soft crud on the inlet valves but more that likely you'll find the exhaust valves near spotless

[MikeT]

I guess you are having trouble with the centre bolt marked as "B" in the figure 15.6 on BoL page 4B.14. I only recall that it is 13mm and its a bit of a I have a feeling I got a slim ring in there. Speaking of feeling, that is all you can do. You cannot see it!

It depends which 3082 manual I look at as to what page/section to reference as I have two and they're quite differently laid out, but yes, that's the nut in question.

I can't reconcile what can I feel with what Haynes is showing me - no surprise there then. so I have taken many, many photos in order to see what's what and this is the best I have which IMO, looks very different to what Haynes led me to expect.




Sorry for the poor focus but from what I can tell, this exhaust manifold is a level horizontal piece restricting access and it looks like the nut? is vertically inserted as opposed to the V-shaped manifold in the Haynes showing the nut horizontally inserted.

[CitroJim]

Hi Mike,

As hard as I try, I cannot reconcole that picture with what I recall of what it looks like. I have looked and the picture that appears in the BoL (the one with the inlet manifold bolts marked "A" and "B") remains substantially the same for all. The difference is they are showing an early one without EGR. On an EGR head, you must emove the whole concertina pipe that goes from the side of the EGR valve across to the inlet manifold stub as it both restricts access and will stop the manifold coming off.

Check, on the inlet manifold you will find 7 studs. 6 have nuts and one, low down, is a stud, the one the BoL say to loosen but not remove. If the EGR pipe is still in place you will have a job getting to it.

I know the problem with the BoL. They skip between the 1.9 and 2.1 and don't always (in the pictures) show which is which. It might be worth trying to get hold of a Citroen Diesel Engine BoL (or a Peugeot one, they're very similar) as this has clearer pictures in it. It shows the non-turbo manifolds but again these are very similar.

[admiral51]

Mike/Jim
would it be of any use if i could get some pics of my 1.9 n/a manifold for you not sure which angle to take them from but if you let me know and it helps......................
theres bags more room in the n/a engine bay

Colin

[MikeT]

One way or another I have to find a way to get around it. I've been wondering if it is possible to withdraw the head complete with manifolds. I doubt the turbo could remain.

Local lads tell me they'd find it easier to remove the complete engine and I think they may have a point! Problem is, I don't have anywhere to do that.

[MikeT]

Jim, I meant the Haynes books have the pictures in different pages/sections. There is no section 14 for instance in the earlier book and the picture, although it is the same, is smaller and harder to make out the detail. I suspect you're right about it being of the non-egr manifolds though. What engine did you work on again, I can't remember if it was 2.1 or 1.9 and was it turbo with EGR? Yes, I've got six nuts off the inlet manifold.

The EGR pipe is certainly not helping matters but as you see from the camera shot, it's clear in from the back of the firewall - EGR pipe is above and between the inlet runners. What is awkward is that I have to go in that gap you see and then get the spanner below the exhaust manifold then over the bolt/stud head but there is just a few mm spare to work that angle and then the swing of the spanner will be very short too. I'm wondering if it can be accessed from underneath, behind the ex-manifold but the turbo obstructs that view anyway.

[CitroJim]

Right Mike, You have six nuts off so it is the low bolt that is causing you the problem.

I did an EGR equipped 1.9TD of 1997 vintage so it'll be like yours. I think I got to the last stud by attacking it from the nearside and virtuallly laying over the LHM reservoir. I clearly recall my feet were off the ground It's a shame Xac is not around at the moment as he may remember the acrobatics I performed

As I have said before, you can only feel it and it will feel like it is behind a projection on the exhaust manifold. You won't get a socket on to it, it needs to be a ring, at an angle.

You won't get at it from underneath due to the shape of the exhaust manifold. You have to go in from the side.

You need to disconnect both ends of the EGR pipe and remove it.

I tell you what Mike, when you've got that stud loose, the rest is comparatively easy, or that is how it seems!

[MikeT]

I got to the last stud by attacking it from the nearside

That will be the least explored angle then Jim - working that side fully stretched out brings about backpain and muscle fatique very rapidly.

[CitroJim]

That will be the least explored angle then Jim - working that side fully stretched out brings about backpain and muscle fatique very rapidly.

Sorry Mike, I should have realised your back won't allow I wish I was not so far away. It's frustrating, I know exactly what to do and if I were there... Start wishing for something to give me a reason to come down your way in the near future

Seriously, it may be that you need to get a bit of assistance for this bit. Certainly, you'll need help to lift the head when the time comes. They're heaver than you might think. The last thing you want to do is do your back a nasty.

In the neantine start undoing the exhaust manifold nuts and removeing the studs by "doublenutting" them.

[MikeT]

Cheers for the offer Jim but it's something I need to learn to overcome anyway. Fortunately I can afford to take my time so there's no rush.
Is there a trick to getting those clips off the EGR pipe? I usually succeed with a long screwdriver or thin-nosed pliers but lack of space and angle of attack makes both those options redundant. Having said that, it doesn't appear to be obstructing this last inlet stud/bolt. Whereas, the turbo oil return appears to be right in the way of the space needed to arc a spanner so that's off now.