All Things V6...

[Ben82]

The very first time you started it when you first got it, did it start easily and quickly or did it struggle a bit ?

Just had a thought, David posted a video of it starting for the first time here


I would say it struggles briefly as it sounds like it turns over twice as much before starting? (could be the whacky starter David has though )

[DHallworth]

The first time it started there was a little splitter then it caught on all 6 without fault. Only big issue then was the starter clinging for to long which it seems to ave stopped after running for a while the other night.

Tickling the throttle makes no difference to it trying to start.

The coolant temperature sensor makes a lot of sense though as the first time I had it running there was no coolant in it due to a badly corroded sensor. Now it won't start it's got the new rad and pipes fitted and its full of coolant. I'll stick the lexis across it this evening.

I've got a spare ES9J4 engine so hopefully the sensors are the same. Failing that I'll try and swipe them from dads 406 Coupe with the later engine in it whilst he's not looking!

The weather up here's crap again today so the poor XM isn't getting out again. I was told this morning that Monday's forecast is for snow!! If that's the case and the roads are covered in salt I might just take the Range Rover to Wetherby as I don't want either of the Citroen's on the road near salt.

David.

[Ben82]

Hi David,

The coolant temperature sensor isn't the same for the J4 and the J4S... I was 95% sure. But checked one is 133891 and the other is 1338A7.

EDIT: looks like the sensor connector is different so won't work.

[DHallworth]

Why do I keep buying cars that I need one of to drive and another to keep for spare parts! Argh! Will get a look at I after work today.

Thanks Ben.

David.

[Mandrake]

Tickling the throttle makes no difference to it trying to start.

The coolant temperature sensor makes a lot of sense though as the first time I had it running there was no coolant in it due to a badly corroded sensor. Now it won't start it's got the new rad and pipes fitted and its full of coolant. I'll stick the lexis across it this evening.

Yep the Lexia will soon show you if the temperature sensor is dud!

The weather up here's crap again today so the poor XM isn't getting out again. I was told this morning that Monday's forecast is for snow!! If that's the case and the roads are covered in salt I might just take the Range Rover to Wetherby as I don't want either of the Citroen's on the road near salt.

I just checked Weather Pro on my phone (which is usually pretty spot on, at least as far as is possible with the fickle UK weather!) and it says 12.9mm of precipitation in the form of "heavy hail showers" for your area on Monday

Funny thing is it says much the same for our area and we're going to be out looking at a house on Monday. Great.

[Ben82]

Why do I jeep buying cars that I need one of to drive and another to keep for spare parts! Argh! Will get a look at I after work today.

Thanks Ben.

David.

I had to edit the post a few times... I accidentally looked up my VIN and then a generic C5

I believe the one in the C5 is used across a large range of that vintage, so is very common. (and fairly cheap too)

[Mandrake]

Why do I jeep buying cars that I need one of to drive and another to keep for spare parts! Argh! Will get a look at I after work today.

Come now, you don't need a whole spare car for a coolant temperature sensor

[Ben82]

Why do I jeep buying cars that I need one of to drive and another to keep for spare parts! Argh! Will get a look at I after work today.

Come now, you don't need a whole spare car for a coolant temperature sensor

Think he was talking plural Having a 2nd working engine would make it easier to swap sensors over to see what fixes it. But a second one would probably cost more than all the sensors combined

[DHallworth]

The cost of the radiator and pipe work, and a couple of other odds and sods for this car have added up to more then i could of bought a red V6 that was on Gumtree the other week for!

It was taxed and mot'd for a week but had an anti pollution fault. Guy had bought a new car and wanted rid of his s was selling it for £250!

Annoyingly though I'd of said it was to nice to break thought and I'd of ended up with two money pits lol.

It's not the price of part that annoys me, it's the waiting for two days whilst its ordered that really gets me!

David.

[DHallworth]

Had a quick look at this tonight.

The coolant temperature sensor is reading 9 degrees at the moment. The air temperature sensor is reading 9.8 degrees so I'm tempted to believe the coolant temperature sensor is not at fault.

I've had the crank shaft sensor out and given it a quick clean, no difference was made when it went back together. When attempting to start it there's a gearbox fault message coming up on the screen and the fault code mentions something about input speeds but am not convinced this is worth looking into at the moment.

Next step is an obvious one... The fuel pin on the car is reading around 1/4 a tank, just in case the pin is talking crap and I'm getting a bad reading I'm going to stick a jerry can of petrol in it and see if that's a cure. If not, at least I know there'll be 20 litres in it.

David.

[DHallworth]

Oh yea... MAP pressure is showing as 960millibars with the engine off and the ignition on. It doesn't seem to change when cranking.

David.

[Mandrake]

Oh yea... MAP pressure is showing as 960millibars with the engine off and the ignition on. It doesn't seem to change when cranking.

David.

Hmm. On reflection I'm not sure if you will actually get a significant vacuum on cranking when the idle air control valve will be (or should be) half open during cranking.

If the MAP sensor is easy to remove (dead easy on the ES9J4 on the back of the inlet manifold, not sure on this one) try removing it, push a small piece of hose onto the opening and suck on it to create a vacuum to see if you can get a reduction on the reading on the Lexia, if you can its probably ok...

What was the exact error you got from the gearbox ? This could be significant as the gearbox gets its input (before the torque converter) speed reading passed to it from the engine ECU, which in turn gets it from the crank sensor...

Did the engine ECU live data on the Lexia actually show an rpm reading while cranking ?

If not the gearbox would throw a fault code as its not getting an rpm signal from the engine, yet its measuring rotation of the output of the torque converter using its own built in sensor. It compares the two to monitor the slip state of the torque converter.

My gearbox has occasionally logged intermittent faults regarding the engine speed signal but I have not been able to identify a cause and it hasn't done it for many months now...

Do you have spark ? Was the crank sensor or its wiring disturbed in any way when you replaced the radiator hoses ?

[Ben82]

Oh yea... MAP pressure is showing as 960millibars with the engine off and the ignition on. It doesn't seem to change when cranking.

David.

David, did you want me to get any readings from mine for you for comparison? If so, let me know what ones you want me to read from the lexia, and I'll graph them up with a crank for you Only issue is if I go out tonight, it hasn't been long since my car has been running for a while, so won't have truly cooled down.
Let me know

Ben

[DHallworth]

Yea, it was reading 160rpm while cranking on the starter.

David.

[Mandrake]

Yea, it was reading 160rpm while cranking on the starter.

David.

Shouldn't cranking be more like 300 rpm ?

Try measuring the cranking speed via the gearbox ECU. It will show both the engine speed passed to it from the engine ECU (impeller speed) as well as the output speed of the torque converter (turbine speed) and they should either be the same, or the turbine speed (or input speed it might call it) will be slightly lower due to slip. (Up to 50 rpm in neutral)