3rd car - Xantia, XM, BX, CX, DS, SM, or 280SE?

DoubleChevron · Unread post by **DoubleChevron** » 27 Sep 2004, 05:28

Hmm,
I suggest you join the SM-L list on the yahoogroups site. Yes I'm sure you most certainly could get an SM motor reliable. This would probably entail replacing the sodium filled exhaust valves with stainless steel valves and updating the timing chains so they have tensioners that actually work.
SM's are worth huge $$$$ in Australia and are very much an oddball. I doubt I'll ever own one no matter how nice they are (I'd be ****scared someone would run into it, just smashing the headlights or rear quater panels on it would have the car off the road for months while the repair parts are sourced from the UK).
If you live in the UK though ... It'll rust like it's going out of fashion. Most of the people on the SM list above are in the USA. They had quite a number of SM's imported. They don't rust there, and spare parts cars are very cheap.
Once you join the SM-L list you will find even Andrew Brody is a member, so there is endless help from the experts available.
With cars such as the CX and DS, you don't buy on the type of CX or DS it is. Rather you find the car that's in the best possible condition (having said that I'd be looking for a CX2500 GTi Turbo II prestige if I lived in the UK, or a DS21 or DS23 injected BVH). Your much better looking in the USA or France if you want a nice early DS.
seeya,
Shane L.

uhn113x · Unread post by **uhn113x** » 27 Sep 2004, 12:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I've come back to SM because I have a new question: Can the SM engine be modified to be reliable or replaced by other engine?
- Which year DS will be better? How about the later DS23?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Main problems with SM engine are heads falling off sodium-filled valves and dodgy timing chains. Spares are a bit difficult as well. Despite what Shane says about rust, there are many good SMs on road here - not an everyday car, though, IMHO.
DS - get one from France - LHD much cheaper and not a problem. Post facelift (1969) are better for spares. 21 engine is smoother than 23. Get injection rather than carb - more power and economy. D-Jetronic is very reliable - ECU faults unknown. BVH (semi-auto) is a delight to drive, but needs to be set up correctly - an hour's job.
Quite feasibl as an everyday car, as spares are plentiful, and service info abounds.
Where in UK are you?

Unread post by **Thunderbird** » 27 Sep 2004, 15:45

A few more easy questions:
- Are there more parts availale for the DS or the CX (now)? And in 10 years?
- For a non-mechanical, which is easier to learn and maintain - the DS or the CX? Is the difference significative?
- Which one provides the higher level of comfort: CX GTi, DS 21 or SM? (on good and not so good roads)
- And better handling?
- And which resists better to oxidation?
I am at Portugal.

uhn113x · Unread post by **uhn113x** » 27 Sep 2004, 18:32

Right - for some strange reason I assumed you were in UK - D'oh!
DS is probably the most comfortable of the lot. They are not really difficult to work on, but some jobs just require a fair bit of dismantling and patience. That said, when you fix something properly on a DS, it will not need fixing again for a long while.
DS Spares are readily available from companies in the Netherlands, including body and trim bits.
You would be well placed in Portugal to get a car from the South of France - should not be rusty!

bxbodger · Unread post by **bxbodger** » 27 Sep 2004, 19:21

I don't know about Portugal, but in the UK virtually anything is available for a DS .....but at a price- this is because sadly it's become a fashion accsessory for wealthy islingtonites, who can afford to pay the money- it does however help them to survive.
The CX is a bit more problematical- it's basically a banger here and scrapyards are the main source, although Pleiades do all the hydraulic stuff-I quite fancy one myself as a project car: they are very cheap and I do have welding gear and experience of old-car resurrection..........
Neither of them are corrosion resistant, in the UK anyway,though because of the DS's value now most will have had some attention.

uhn113x · Unread post by **uhn113x** » 27 Sep 2004, 22:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I don't know about Portugal, but in the UK virtually anything is available for a DS <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'd noticed, BXB! I think they buy them from the places on the continent where we can get them from, then stick a margin on!

Unread post by **Thunderbird** » 27 Sep 2004, 22:30

In matter of parts, Mercedes is at another level! One one hand, no matter the year, you can get them from Mercedes itself; second, outside mercedes, the market never ends...
In terms of reliability and long-time resistance, they are far superior to DS's. Comfort of the old S class is cleary inferior to the DS, but probably better than a Xantia. Also, those never-ending engines with six cilinders have much more power...
I am starting to believe a Merc from the 60s/70s may be a better option...

Robin · Unread post by **Robin** » 27 Sep 2004, 22:43

Primo, what are you smoking? Cool it a bit. We are all just having either a bit of fun because we are at an age or a time in our lives when can or trying to keep body and car together to keep the sheckels coming in. R

primo · Unread post by **primo** » 28 Sep 2004, 03:44

Smoking? Moi? No, I don't smoke (anything, anymore) and I'm not uncool, temperament-wise. I do get slightly irritated by people who dress-up self-regarding waffle as objectivity. Car people are especially prone to this personality disorder. Horse people too.
Anyone who could say, in public, 'Like I said to them, you choose the time, I'll choose the road', whether in earnestness or jest, deserves contempt in my view as it is exactly this kind of swaggering, macho nonsense which causes accidents.
My great uncle always boasted that he'd never had a prang but, by God, he'd caused a few.
P.S. Robin, I don't understand your third sentence.

arry_b · Unread post by **arry_b** » 28 Sep 2004, 04:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tomsheppard

Something quick, well made and very unusual? Tatra?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Ooh, me sir! I saw one of these (a 613) in the flesh for the first time in a barn this weekend.
It's a B-I-G car with an aircooled V-8 in the boot. Impressive in a Soviet Bloc Barge kind of way.
http://www.tatraklub.sk/taks_en.htm
Shame it looks like a Chrysler Alpine, and the front end seems to rust as badly as a CX...
Primo - are you surprised that you've encountered "car people" on this forum?

bxbodger · Unread post by **bxbodger** » 28 Sep 2004, 04:31

Apparently the Tatra was the darling of the pre-war Czech chattering classes, as it was a bit odd, and arty -somewhat like a DS now!
After the Nazi invasion of Czechoslovakia, Whermacht officers took a fancy to them as personal transport, but so many were killed crashing them that they were forbidden by the German high command to drive them or even ride in them. They were capable of 90+, but alledgedly went unstable above 50, despite the tail fin!
They did quite a bit for the war effort though.......

Unread post by **Thunderbird** » 28 Sep 2004, 05:30

What work would it take to mount a HDi engine in the SM?

uhn113x · Unread post by **uhn113x** » 28 Sep 2004, 12:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by primo

Smoking? Moi? No, I don't smoke (anything, anymore) and I'm not uncool, temperament-wise.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I smoked some tuna steaks the other week, while camping - they were great!
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I do get slightly irritated by people who dress-up self-regarding waffle as objectivity. Car people are especially prone to this personality disorder. Horse people too.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Gotta agree with you here, Primo. [:)]It is the 'mine is bigger than yours' syndrome. Don't know any horse people [;)]
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Anyone who could say, in public, 'Like I said to them, you choose the time, I'll choose the road', whether in earnestness or jest, deserves contempt in my view as it is exactly this kind of swaggering, macho nonsense which causes accidents.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
True.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
P.S. Robin, I don't understand your third sentence.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Me neither, but I count myself lucky if I can decipher more than 60% of posts or more than 40% of ebay vendors' descriptions.
[/quote]

tomsheppard · Unread post by **tomsheppard** » 28 Sep 2004, 13:55

Q. What would it take to put an HDI engine in an SM?
A. Stupidity.

primo · Unread post by **primo** » 28 Sep 2004, 14:42

Now that's funny!