Advice on oil/filter for Xantia V6 ? / Noisy tappets.

[CitroJim]

Of all the ES9s I've had and known Simon I've never known any of them use any oil between changes at all. Water and petrol yes but oil no...

I now understand the problems a 20l oil drum would cause. Apologies for my frivolity - I'm feeling unusually well and perky today...

[Ben82]

Simon, what do you live in? A telephone kiosk? A bus shelter?

I wonder as it must be microscopic if you can't find space for a 20l oil drum...

He like me lives with a woman (in my case 2).... ratio of women's stuff:men's stuff is about 95:5 I could probably fit most of my things in a bus shelter actually


Jim, that's useful info on the oil filling and dip stick.. My Dip Stick always seems to suggest it's overfilled, but the electronic gauge says it's not. It was done by the local indy so hopefully they got it right... at least when I do mine in about a month and a halfs time I'll know how to get it right

[Hell Razor5543]

Jim, glad that you are feeling well.

Simon, I wonder if it might be worth looking at the cost of secure storage for a few months. That way you might have more room (not a bad thing), and when you do spot a special offer (like with the oil) you can get it without causing grief.

[Mandrake]

Of all the ES9s I've had and known Simon I've never known any of them use any oil between changes at all. Water and petrol yes but oil no...

That's good to know, but bear in mind you're talking to someone who always used to drive around with a litre of LHM, a litre of engine oil, and a litre of coolant in the boot, just in case, and usually a toolbox as well.

For whatever reason I've never had any spare engine oil in the boot for this Xantia, just a bit of coolant and screen wash.

For what its worth last time I had the inlet manifold off I checked the 8mm bolts on the cambox covers (for the first time) - most of the ones on the rear exhaust cam were loose! Those on the rear inlet cambox were just slightly loose and both the front two cambox covers were fine. I've tightened them up so its possible the small cambox leak I had has been stemmed even further.

This car was going through coolant but has gone through none at all since I started running with the pressure cap loose. Perhaps most V6's just have leaky expansion bottles like mine ? Yes, it's on my to-do list....

I now understand the problems a 20l oil drum would cause. Apologies for my frivolity - I'm feeling unusually well and perky today...

No offence taken. It's taken a bit of work to find places to put most of my tools/car bits etc, most of my car stuff is having to live in the boot of the car for lack of anywhere else to put it, toolboxes, ramps, jack, axle stands, oil etc... I guess on the up side if I break down somewhere I'm well equipped.

[Mandrake]

Simon, I wonder if it might be worth looking at the cost of secure storage for a few months. That way you might have more room (not a bad thing), and when you do spot a special offer (like with the oil) you can get it without causing grief.

We do have some secure storage that is holding some of our stuff like bed, TV, other furniture and various less necessary stuff and stuff duplicated with where we're staying... but most of my car stuff has not gone in there although it would fit because if I break down and need something (ramps, tools etc) then I wouldn't be able to get there to collect it, especially as the lockup only opens monday-friday during working hours... I'm happy to keep my essential car tools in the boot as that's what I was doing when we were living in a flat anyway!

They're out of view and not many people break into scratched 15 year old Xantia's...

[Hell Razor5543]

OK. Mind you, unless your Xantia is drinking oil like a Scotsman (reputedly) drinks whisky, you won't need to carry it around in the boot.

[sandybx]

Dear Mandrake,
With regards to your knock sensor retarding your ignition timing, I had to fit a copper washer ( similar to a sump plug washer ) in addition to the original washer on the knock sensor, so that you have 2 washers fitted to it, therefore bringing the knock sensor further away from the engine block and reducing it sensetivity, and this was on a V6 Vectra. It may be worth a try If it does work, you can always deliberate afterwards to work out the pro,s and con,s etc
The copper washer I used was a large flat washer, with quite a thick band around the centre hole, Not a thin one.
Vince,

[CitroJim]

The problem is getting to the knock sensor on the ES9 Sandy... It's buried right under the inlet manifold in the valley...

It's a full inlet manifold off job and on the ES9 that's a major undertaking...

[sandybx]

Dear Jim,
It is on the V6 Vectra,s aswell, a right pain in the neck to get to. Does the V6 Xantia have a plastic sump guard may be possible from underneath
Vince,

[CitroJim]

No sump guard at all on the V6 Xantia Vince...

Full manifold off is the only way as far as I can see..

[Mandrake]

Ok chaps, I'm digging this thread up because I'm planning to do another engine oil change soon.

I don't know which thread it was discussed in but when I drained some oil out only a month after my previous oil change it was absolutely pitch black, and I have reason to suspect that oil changes were severely neglected on this car prior to my ownership, such that a second oil change soon after the first is called for. (especially in light of running/performance issues)

I've also not been happy with the results that I got from the semi-synth Mobil Super 2000 10w-40 that I put in back at the beginning of June.

Now granted that the system looks to be badly sludged, and that changing the oil may have brought a lot of gunk out of the system and started it circulating, but ever since that oil change I've noticed the tappets have been noisier than before the change, there is sometimes a noticeable (if you're under the bonnet) clicking noise on a cold start lasting about 5 seconds that I have NOT heard before the oil change, which as far as I can tell is not noisy tappets but something a bit more deep seated...

Also the engine when revved under load just seems noisier and rougher than before, although that may be partly due to an intermittent misfire... but at one point just before the oil change in June when it was running fairly well it was sounding nice and smooth and sweet when revved, but it hasn't sounded that way since the oil change. The oil level is correct and I used a genuine Citroen filter of the correct (V6) size.

So I've decided I need to crack on and change the oil and filter again due to the contamination being so bad last time, however I want to try a better oil this time. I chose the Mobil mainly on cost last time and I have not used Mobil engine oil in any car before so have no prior experience with Mobil.

On my previous 2 litre petrol Xantia the second oil change I did on it I put in fully synthetic Castrol Magnatec (can't remember the grade) and I was very impressed with the results from that - the engine was significantly (obviously) smoother and quieter when revved and also much quieter for the first 30 seconds after a cold start - their "magnetic particles" that supposedly cling to the galleys in the head when stopped instead of draining to the sump really does seem to work for cold starts...

I noticed that B&Q has a decent price (for a fully synth) of around £26 / 4 litres for the Magnatec, so that's what I'm wanting to get, but I can't decide on the grade:

http://search.diy.com/search#w=magnatec&asug=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They have 5W30 A1, 5W30 A3/B4, 10W40. Despite my reading on the subject I'm still at a bit of a loss to understand the grades and figure out which one might be best for the V6 engine, and best for Scottish climate.

In the owners manual they list 3 oil grades for all petrol engines but then say "depends on the climate of the country" with no further guidance. They list:

Total Quartz 7000, 10W-40, API standard SJ, ACEA Standard A3.96
Total Quartz 9000, 5W-40, API standard SJ, ACEA Standard A3.98
Total Quartz 9000, 5W-30, API standard SJ-EC, ACEA A1.98

They also show a temperature range graph showing 10W-40 as good for -20 to 45 degrees, 5W-40 good for -30 to 45 degrees, and 5W-30 as good for -30 to 40.

As winter is coming up I'd rather go for the 5W30 than 10W40 I think ? Can someone tell me what the difference between the A1 and A3/B4 ratings for the Castrol Magnatec are, and how they relate to the API and ACEA standards ? Is it possible that either one meets the standards set for the car ?

I'm normally pretty good at figuring technical things out but this stuff really just makes my eyes glaze over...

Castrol have some information here:

http://magnatec.castrol.com/en/oil-rang ... 30-a1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As well as the oil change I plan to run some lubegard engine flush through it just before draining the old oil, to do the most I possibly can to clean out the oil ways and make the most of new oil going in...

[addo]

I unintentionally misread the first line of the post immediately above:

"I'm digging this thread up because I'm planning to do another engine ...change soon"

Anyhow, if the oil is that neglected you won't go wrong with a flush, nor (if you're keen) another oil change/flush within a couple of thousand miles. Remember an oil that "holds" carbon in suspension is doing the right thing (provided you do change it when due).

[CitroJim]

I agree but no need of a flush par-se, just use a cheap but good oil (like Costco's stuff) and do some rapid changes. It'll work just as well especially if you use a universal oil suitable for diesels as it has more detergent in it.

I have seen the effects of detergent in oil after spilling some (actually LT71141*) on an oily carpet tile - it brought it up like new

* Now you know why an LT lubricated gearbox will eventually plug its oil filter - the LT is very good at holding rubbish in suspension that's eventually captured by the filter...

Same goes with engine oil so if you do rapid changes do a filter change each time too.. the 'bay often has great filter deals on the go...

[Stempy]

So if you fill the engine with LT it should really clean things up!

[Mandrake]

I'm changing the filter again as well Jim - another genuine Citroen one from eBay for £5...

So no one has any ideas on interpreting the ACEA ratings for the Castrol oils ? Reading it again suggests that either A1 or A3 should be fine ?

Although this comment on the Castrol page for A1 is concerning:

"NOTE: 5W-30 oil is only suitable for cars that can use an ACEA A1/B1 fuel efficient product. Please consult the vehicle handbook to confirm the oils suitability."

There is no such warning for the A3 variant, so maybe that's a safer choice ?