CT to xud11 conversion

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 21 Mar 2010, 07:56

MK2 Auto Xantias had a gear position indicator in place of the oil temperature gauge Dom.

It was a row of LEDs, one for each position (PRND321) and one each for sport and snow mode.

It was not dynamic, it just repeated the switch and selector positions. MK1 Autos never had this and VSX models had an oil gauge.

Anyone who has a MK1 Auto will be aware at night especially, just how useful this indicator is; especially if the selector quadrant backlight bulb has blown

On an RHD car, the quadrant position legend is not very visible, being designed for LHD...

You could possibly use the LEDs as a bargraph Adam, to indicate temperature...

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 21 Mar 2010, 08:26

Maybe so! To my shame, I still have only one working dash globe and the tacho needle stuck on full. Until the Alfa is re-registered and insured (ten days or so), I'm not touching the Xantia...

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 21 Mar 2010, 08:40

addo wrote:To my shame, I still have only one working dash globe and the tacho needle stuck on full.

Adam! Thats's shocking

And replacing the globes in a MK2 is by far an easier job than a MK1!!! Xac has done it in the dark

Mind you, if your only car at present, I agree, leave well alone...

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 21 Mar 2010, 08:45

I've got Paris the 405, but she's cobbled right now - I let someone else work on her last Tuesday and they massively overtensioned the accessory belt, collapsing the (NLA) tensioner pulley.

My usual machinist for a billet replacement is rather unwell, so that job may be farmed out to a fellow in Tasmania, 1000 miles away!

So, it's a case of not wanting to push one's luck! Im afraid to even change the oil in case I strip the sump plug or something.

Unread post by **Dommo** » 22 Mar 2010, 19:07

Something my dad just pointed out.. The Activa system takes into account road speed doesn't it? Where does it take this information from, the engine ECU or whatever sensor the clocks used? Ie - would a 2.1 be able to provide this information to the suspension ECU??

Cheers.

XantiaMan · Unread post by **XantiaMan** » 22 Mar 2010, 19:16

Dommo wrote:Something my dad just pointed out.. The Activa system takes into account road speed doesn't it? Where does it take this information from, the engine ECU or whatever sensor the clocks used? Ie - would a 2.1 be able to provide this information to the suspension ECU??

Cheers.

Should imagine that would come straight off the sender on the gearbox.

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 22 Mar 2010, 23:08

If you look at the wiring schematics, it appears that way. The whole deal is awesomely simple; there's not even a pulse from the engine ECU for anything.

Unread post by **Dommo** » 23 Mar 2010, 00:20

Gareth - so I assume there are two senders off the gearbox, one for engine speed and one for road speed?

Sorry for the seemingly daft questions, just want to make sure everythings going to work!

Addo - I'm hoping this to be the case. I'm getting a set of 2.1TD clocks in a couple of days to see if the loom inputs are the same. If they are I'd be a happy chappy!

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 23 Mar 2010, 06:28

Dommo wrote:Gareth - so I assume there are two senders off the gearbox, one for engine speed and one for road speed?

No just one for the road speed, the "engine speed" (revolutions) is detected by the crankshaft sensor on the engine.

KP · Unread post by KP » 23 Mar 2010, 08:01

Dommo are you going for a LUCAS 2.1 or a Bosch 2.1???

Unread post by **Dommo** » 23 Mar 2010, 11:16

DickieG wrote:
Dommo wrote:Gareth - so I assume there are two senders off the gearbox, one for engine speed and one for road speed?
No just one for the road speed, the "engine speed" (revolutions) is detected by the crankshaft sensor on the engine.

Oh yes of course.. mong!

Cheers Dickie!

I'll be looking for a Bosch 2.1 engine, but if lucas is all I can get I'll get that and swap a Bosch pump from a 1.9TD onto it. Why's that?

Dom.

Unread post by **Dommo** » 24 Mar 2010, 01:01

A little update - I'm on the servicebox now comparing part numbers with the senders and other little bits, I've found the 'tachometer' sender, but it's lumped in with the gearbox section and not the engine section. I assume the tacho sender is RPM not road speed? If so - then the road speed and engine speed sender must be the same thing because the cruise control 'speed sensor' (must be road speed surely) has the same part number. So is the road speed and engine speed sender the same thing?

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 24 Mar 2010, 06:05

Dommo wrote:I've found the 'tachometer' sender, but it's lumped in with the gearbox section and not the engine section. I assume the tacho sender is RPM not road speed?

The 'tachometer sender' is better known as the TDC sensor Dom and is located on the edge of the bellhousing, hence being a gearbox part from the spares point of view. It measures flywheel speed, detects engine position and hence reads engine speed. The actual sensor is common across many engines and is the same between the CT and 2.1.

Road speed is measured by the VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) mounted atop the RH final drive casting. This sensor feeds the speedo, ECUs that need speed info and also cruise control. This is a pretty universal component as well.

Using a Bosch pump on a 2.1TD will simplify the wiring a bit but don't forget you must make good provision for glowplug control and instrumentation.

Unless you have some desperation to run on vegetable oil, don't overlook the Lucas EPIC pump. They're nowhere near as bad as some will make out; in fact they're rather good. They do like to drink decent diesel though. The point of using the EPIC and its ECU is that much of the minutiae of getting instruments and glowplugs working is all done for you.

Unread post by **Dommo** » 24 Mar 2010, 11:27

CitroJim wrote:The 'tachometer sender' is better known as the TDC sensor Dom and is located on the edge of the bellhousing, hence being a gearbox part from the spares point of view. It measures flywheel speed, detects engine position and hence reads engine speed. The actual sensor is common across many engines and is the same between the CT and 2.1.

Road speed is measured by the VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) mounted atop the RH final drive casting. This sensor feeds the speedo, ECUs that need speed info and also cruise control. This is a pretty universal component as well.

Using a Bosch pump on a 2.1TD will simplify the wiring a bit but don't forget you must make good provision for glowplug control and instrumentation.

Unless you have some desperation to run on vegetable oil, don't overlook the Lucas EPIC pump. They're nowhere near as bad as some will make out; in fact they're rather good. They do like to drink decent diesel though. The point of using the EPIC and its ECU is that much of the minutiae of getting instruments and glowplugs working is all done for you.

Cheers Jim. I've had another look on the servicebox and it's hard to decide whether they mean it's the road speed/mph sender or engine speed/rpm sender, but like you said it may be the same part?

Regarding the Bosch pump, how would people on the 306 forum fit Xantia or 406 2.1TD engines into their 306s and make provisions for the glow plug wiring/instrumentation? Is the problem the dash/ignition barrel wiring loom more than the engine bay wiring loom?

Do we reckon they stick a 1.9TD 306 glow plug setup onto the 2.1TD? I'll ask what they do on the forum in a moment actually.

I know you like the EPIC pump Jim, and I think I would too if I didn't have a constant supply of free (that's the deal clincher) waste vegetable oil. And I've already got a filtration system on the go from my 306, so for the sake of a fuel pump change it'd be daft not to use the Bosch pump.

Cheers. Dom.

KP · Unread post by KP » 24 Mar 2010, 12:03

The main reason i would say stick with the bosch if possible as its easier to setup the fuelling and get more power from the unit and also the fact that spares are so plentiful.

Free supply of WVO means life is a lot better for you

wish i could get free WVO and convert my car as i have enough space in the garage for a decent setup now