Citroen Berlingo 1.4i Doesnt start, tried evrrything
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Deniskk
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 04 Jun 2023, 16:34
Re: Citroen Berlingo 1.4i Doesnt start, tried evrrything
It seems that the timing belt jumped a tooth or 2 because the camshaft and crankshaft holes dont line up. Anyone know how to set the engine timing properly? Like, should I just take the belt off and get the 2 holes to line up? or is there anything else to it? Thanks for any advice on the matter.
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ozvtr
- Posts: 853
- Joined: 13 Oct 2020, 01:11
- x 234
Re: Citroen Berlingo 1.4i Doesnt start, tried evrrything
I have a blurb over >here< on replacing the timing belt on a TU3 engine.
If that link doesn't work, cut and paste this into the URL. https(remove this space)://citroenc3owners.com/tips-for-a-petrol-powered-c3-f7/how-to-change-the-timing-belt-tu3jp-kfv-engine-t3868.html
The site doesn't allow linking so cut and paste and edit "(remove this space)" from the URL.
If the timing is only out by "1 or 2 teeth" I don't think that will cause the problems that you are having. In fact it wont make a massive difference to the performance at all.
Of course, reset the timing, that's not where it's supposed to be.
Did you address the loss of compression in one cylinder? Are you thinking that the timing being out is causing the loss of compression? I don't think so.
The videos seemed to show the engine run fine when it actually did run. If one of the cylinders had no compression I would have expected the engine to run very rough. Unfortunately the videos have gone.
When you remove the tappet cover turn the engine over and check that all the valves are moving in and out.
If that link doesn't work, cut and paste this into the URL. https(remove this space)://citroenc3owners.com/tips-for-a-petrol-powered-c3-f7/how-to-change-the-timing-belt-tu3jp-kfv-engine-t3868.html
The site doesn't allow linking so cut and paste and edit "(remove this space)" from the URL.
If the timing is only out by "1 or 2 teeth" I don't think that will cause the problems that you are having. In fact it wont make a massive difference to the performance at all.
Of course, reset the timing, that's not where it's supposed to be.
Did you address the loss of compression in one cylinder? Are you thinking that the timing being out is causing the loss of compression? I don't think so.
The videos seemed to show the engine run fine when it actually did run. If one of the cylinders had no compression I would have expected the engine to run very rough. Unfortunately the videos have gone.
When you remove the tappet cover turn the engine over and check that all the valves are moving in and out.
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Deniskk
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 04 Jun 2023, 16:34
Re: Citroen Berlingo 1.4i Doesnt start, tried evrrything
I think it is out somehow by more then a couple of teeth. Ill be checking it tonight. Just to get a little clarification. Do the holes in the crankshaft and camshaft always align? Like when i turn the engine over for the camshaft hole to align, and take the belt off, and turn the crank for the crankshaft hole to align and put the belt on, will the timing be properly set?
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ozvtr
- Posts: 853
- Joined: 13 Oct 2020, 01:11
- x 234
Re: Citroen Berlingo 1.4i Doesnt start, tried evrrything
This is an interference engine. If the timing is too far out, you start bending valves! That doesn't seem to be the problem in your case. But then again I'm only going on what I remember about the engine videos.
The CRANKSHAFT rotates 2 times for every 1 rotation of the CAMSHAFT. So the camshaft and crankshaft only align every 2 turns (of the CRANKSHAFT). But theoretically the camshaft and crankshaft will align every time the CAMSHAFT sprocket hole is over the hole in the cylinder head (theoretically, if the alignment was good in the first place).
DON'T rotate the camshaft OR crankshaft independently (I.E. without the timing belt fitted) unless you have removed the cylinder head. Again, you risk bending valves. Rotating the camshaft or crankshaft independently "a little bit" (to get things to line up) is OK, but not a lot!
I recommend that you "pin" the CRANKSHAFT first and see where the CAMSHAFT alignment hole is. If necessary, unpin the crankshaft and rotate it 360 degrees and see if the CAMSHAFT sprocket alignment hole is close to the hole in the cylinder head. Do not remove the timing belt until the camshaft and crankshaft alignment holes are at least "close" to alignment!
It's not uncommon for the timing belt to be out by about 1/2 a tooth. The tension on the belt and the belt manufacture tolerances can causes the alignment to be out (by a tiny bit). So even if you perform the timing belt alignment properly, it's possible that the alignment pins may be hard to pull out or put back in (if you need to do so).
The CRANKSHAFT rotates 2 times for every 1 rotation of the CAMSHAFT. So the camshaft and crankshaft only align every 2 turns (of the CRANKSHAFT). But theoretically the camshaft and crankshaft will align every time the CAMSHAFT sprocket hole is over the hole in the cylinder head (theoretically, if the alignment was good in the first place).
DON'T rotate the camshaft OR crankshaft independently (I.E. without the timing belt fitted) unless you have removed the cylinder head. Again, you risk bending valves. Rotating the camshaft or crankshaft independently "a little bit" (to get things to line up) is OK, but not a lot!
I recommend that you "pin" the CRANKSHAFT first and see where the CAMSHAFT alignment hole is. If necessary, unpin the crankshaft and rotate it 360 degrees and see if the CAMSHAFT sprocket alignment hole is close to the hole in the cylinder head. Do not remove the timing belt until the camshaft and crankshaft alignment holes are at least "close" to alignment!
It's not uncommon for the timing belt to be out by about 1/2 a tooth. The tension on the belt and the belt manufacture tolerances can causes the alignment to be out (by a tiny bit). So even if you perform the timing belt alignment properly, it's possible that the alignment pins may be hard to pull out or put back in (if you need to do so).
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Deniskk
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 04 Jun 2023, 16:34
Re: Citroen Berlingo 1.4i Doesnt start, tried evrrything
Quick update. Took off the timing belt, had 6 teeth missing. Put on a new one, still cylinder 4, 0 compression. Took the head off, all the valves were hit, and on cylinder 4 only the intake seems to be slightly bent. Found the issue atleast. Will be replacing the valves, machining the head and replacing the head gasket.
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wheeler
- Posts: 7894
- Joined: 21 Sep 2002, 19:07
- x 1044
Re: Citroen Berlingo 1.4i Doesnt start, tried evrrything
It's a TU petrol engine.
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ozvtr
- Posts: 853
- Joined: 13 Oct 2020, 01:11
- x 234
Re: Citroen Berlingo 1.4i Doesnt start, tried evrrything
Hmm I wonder how it ran at all?
I like the little 1.4 engine, it's very easy to work on. But who cares what I think?
Be careful with the cylinder head gaskets. There is a fuel injected head (TU3JP) and the older non-fuel injected head (TU3A). I know that the cooling jacket holes in the cylinder head gasket are in different places. Does it make a difference? I don't know. But just be wary.
Technically if you face the head you should get a "repair" gasket. It's a bit thicker than stock, to compensate.
I would talk to whom ever you are getting the head reworked with about the type of head gasket. It would depend on the amount of material removed. They might recommend that you just use a stock gasket. But they should know.
I like the little 1.4 engine, it's very easy to work on. But who cares what I think?
Be careful with the cylinder head gaskets. There is a fuel injected head (TU3JP) and the older non-fuel injected head (TU3A). I know that the cooling jacket holes in the cylinder head gasket are in different places. Does it make a difference? I don't know. But just be wary.
Technically if you face the head you should get a "repair" gasket. It's a bit thicker than stock, to compensate.
I would talk to whom ever you are getting the head reworked with about the type of head gasket. It would depend on the amount of material removed. They might recommend that you just use a stock gasket. But they should know.