How much?!!

An area for all matters concerning the Citroen CX.
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Citroening
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Re: How much?!!

Unread post by Citroening »

Woah! All this CX hate! :o :wink:

Sure, the CX Estate won't win any beauty contests, but that's not what it was designed for was it! It held a huge amount of stuff in the Safari form and 8 seats in the Familiale. I'd rather have a Familiale than an Espace of the same vintage...

All I can think of now is Dom rolling up at the CX Rally in the Familiale and his 7 friends... :lol: :lol: :lol:

The dashes and plastics aren't that bad - Series 2s aren't too bad either. If you have 'good ones' they're fine... :wink: :wink:

I'd rather have a CX Safari to a DS Safari. Not a fan of the standard D Shape either TBH...
Franklin
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jwalshe
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Re: How much?!!

Unread post by jwalshe »

robert_e_smart wrote:Vive la CX!!
I'm not posting anything again until we hear Dickie say that! ;-) Haha!
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Re: How much?!!

Unread post by robert_e_smart »

Woah! All this CX hate!
Change from all the XM hate!!

Right, lets pick on the Activa owners for a change. I'm sure DickieG will help us there :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dom's familiale was class!!!

The DS is too over rated in my opinion, it spoils the experience for me.
1990 XM 2.1 Turbo SD
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jwalshe
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Re: How much?!!

Unread post by jwalshe »

Frankly, any thing with THAT suspension is amazing, regardless of dodgy interior plastics in some cases. Which is why the new DS5 is so utterly crap, in my view. All that build quality and fine engineering and it rides on springs. Huge missed opportunity.
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Re: How much?!!

Unread post by robert_e_smart »

Frankly, any thing with THAT suspension is amazing,
Nah, the Activa is a waste of time, the ruination of good Xantias. Give me a sinker Xantia any day!
1990 XM 2.1 Turbo SD
1991 BX 16 TGS Auto
1992 ZX 1.6 Aura Auto
1994 Xantia 2.0 16V VSX
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Citroening
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Re: How much?!!

Unread post by Citroening »

robert_e_smart wrote:Nah, the Activa is a waste of time, the ruination of good Xantias. Give me a sinker Xantia any day!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :mrgreen:
Franklin
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CitroJim
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Re: How much?!!

Unread post by CitroJim »

robert_e_smart wrote: Nah, the Activa is a waste of time, the ruination of good Xantias.
That's fighting talk Robert :twisted: :lol:

But I'll agree most strongly on the 'Sinker' comment though :D :D :D

So, we've gone from XM hate to CX hate and now we're on to Activa hate :mrgreen:

Just don't start hating Xantia V6s or 110 HDis or there'll be trouble...
Jim

A bit of a Citroen AX fan...
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Citroening
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Re: How much?!!

Unread post by Citroening »

I think some DS hate is on the cards next, although that could get very controversial! :o :lol: :lol:

I'm hoping there'll be no Visa hate though... [-X :wink:
Franklin
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CitroJim
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Re: How much?!!

Unread post by CitroJim »

What's there to hate about a DS Franklin?

I'll tell you......

Nothing, not a sausage...

Now I really do hate Vista :twisted: Windows 7 is a vast improvement...
Jim

A bit of a Citroen AX fan...
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Citroening
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Re: How much?!!

Unread post by Citroening »

Can't say that I am a fan of the DS Jim. I appreciate that people do really love them but it'd be a boring place if we liked the same things!

People say that they're beautiful but I can't say I agree IMO. Just not for me TBH...

...dad has had a couple though including a D Super 5 and a DS 23 Pallas IE C-Matic that had SUPER low miles.

Image

Image

Traction's are nice though, we've had a couple of those. Nice cars.

I should've seen that Vista comment coming...! :lol:
Franklin
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Re: How much?!!

Unread post by robert_e_smart »

Now I really do hate Vista Windows 7 is a vast improvement...
:lol: :lol: :roll:

The Visa is a classy car. I had a Visa parked in the yard for half of last winter (Roger Porter's Colorado Beige Visa- I can't remember the spec but it was very very tidy).

DS hate is the order of the day :D :D Over hyped cars. Don't get me wrong, I like them, I like the improvements to motoring that the DS made in terms of its innovations, but why do all the cars that follow have to live under this cloud of DS euphoria. The CX is a better car than the DS. The GS/A is just as innovative, and bugger all is heard about the GS/A now. The Xm was a sales disaster, but a good car at the back of it all that brought us Hydractive suspension (another waste of time in my opinion) and good rust proofing compared to the CX and BX. The BX saved Citroen's bacon, it sold, and kept selling, and stopped the company going under. The Xantia followed on nicely until the start of the bland era of Xsaras and C5s.
1990 XM 2.1 Turbo SD
1991 BX 16 TGS Auto
1992 ZX 1.6 Aura Auto
1994 Xantia 2.0 16V VSX
2008 C5 2.7 Exclusive
Citroenmad
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Re: How much?!!

Unread post by Citroenmad »

Goodness, with all this CX, XM and now Activa hate, we will have to pitch our forum at other manufacturers before long :lol:

The CX might look like a hearse, however I can't see a Hearse being made from a C5 Tourer, its a useless shape for an estate car. An estate should be square at the back, with a deep and regtangular boot. None of this sloping rear windows and intruding suspension business, they are just slightly better hatchbacks, sometimes not even that good. The DS Safari, CX Safari, XM estate and C5 estate (the real one...) are all huge estates, the Xantia doesn't do badly either, its something Citroen has built a reputation for offering, oh dear ... Now its trying too hard for style and missing other things people want, the space in the back of the new C4 DS4 and C5 is limited compared to Citroens of old.

There is a new shape Mondeo estate which lives in my street, its black, has the darkest rear windows possible and belongs to an under-taker ... no wonder he didnt go for a new Citroen! And yes, a company did make some previous shape C5 hearses. :lol:
Chris
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DickieG
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Re: How much?!!

Unread post by DickieG »

Looks like I'm perceived as the spreader of car hate :lol: not really I just don't subscribe to the idea that everything made by Citroen is brilliant as lets be honest they've made a few pups in their time.

Interesting comments re DS's, their styling does seem to polarise opinions, personally I like it as its like nothing else, streamlined and yet functional with masses of headroom. However as has been well reported their engines are rather agricultural and as they are located right up against the bulkhead they can be quite noisy compared with a modern car, not helped by the pillarless windows which get sucked out when travelling at speed. I've spent many hours and a fair amount of money getting my DS sorted in every department so that its at the peak of its performance not only mechanically but also for the simple things such as window alignment, dashboard functions the list goes on and on. I can't think there can be many DS's where everything works as it should as there is so much to do to them, my car was a good starting basis yet its still needing loads doing to it to satisfy my desire for perfection.

What must be remembered with any old car is that they are just that, old and car design moves on very quickly, I'm not talking just styling here but mechanically and body structure so when comparing say a CX with a DS Citroen had the DS as a starting point then looked for ways to improve it so taking engine noise/refinement the CX is always going to have the upper hand, suspension wise though I think the DS will win the day if you're looking for the smoothest ride as CX sphere's have smaller dampers and the amount of suspension travel on a DS is quite simply huge. When I bought my DS it was fitted with CX sphere's which I later swapped for original DS split sphere's, this made quite a difference to the ride.

Overall though its horses for courses, the DS is the original where huge sums of money were spent on design, both cars rust like nothing else but when it comes to engineering based upon the date of the original design and styling there is no comparison The Goddess wins the day. I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to ever own a CX, it arrived in the age of plastic fantastic so to me the dash looks pretty unpleasant so say the least and whilst the shape of the saloon is OK its no more than that.

Activa's are another matter altogether for me as I really wanted one from the moment they were launched, I very nearly bought a dealer demonstrator had I not discovered body damage from a previous collision on it. When I eventually bought one I spent over £1000 in parts alone to then discover that it didn't really offer any real benefit over and above even a metal sprung car, I spent many hours driving and being driven in 5 Series BMW's at very high speed thinking how very simple the BM is by comparison and that in all honesty tt was more comfortable overall. No messing about with leaking rams and rear ram bushes or the complete frustration of having a car that is supposed to be level under every circumstance rarely being so due to the very basic mechanical linkages used to balance the car. Even more frustrating for me was the CT Turbo engine, not helped when I later bought a V6 which was much quicker, smoother and more economical, so I've been there, done that and won't be going back to an Activa as it was for me a huge disappointment, an interesting concept but poorly executed when long term ownership is taken into consideration.
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Citroenmad
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Re: How much?!!

Unread post by Citroenmad »

Interesting thoughts Richard,

I often think we are very willing to overlook imperfections as we like the cars so much. Its the same with many things in life, there is also no such thing as the perfect car. Its hard to compare a DS, CX or whatever against other cars, they are what they are and many people buy them for veyr different reasons. Im sure Citroen purists buy them because they were the pinicle of Citroen design, both in styling and suspension terms. I doubt anyone buys them because they are looking for a refined motorway mile muncher, something which will be 100% reliable on a daily basis. Its not what the experience is about, and thats it, its an experience to own and drive these cars, its why we have them. If we compared classics with modern cars, they would simply not exist. I mean do you imagine a Austin 7 owner looks forward to a 100 motorway miles or uses it daily ... its all about the experience and what you like.

So maybe a 5 series can match or better the handling and ride of an Activa, they are no means the best handling cars, but then the BMW won't suit everyone. I for one find them very boring cars, not at all what interests me about a car and they are also everywhere. You say you spent £1000 on your Activa, it costs more than that to put a clutch in a Mondeo, for example. Who knows what a BMW 5 series could ammount in its lifetime. I know someone with an 2002 (the unusual looking one) 7 series, its got internal water leaks to the engine, he is thinking of scrapping it! You can pick up an Activa with the change you would find down the back of the sofa, and that will be such a lot of car and deliver such a driving pleasure that the slight amount to keep it going is worth it. You would lose far more on depreciation of a tiny hatchback than you will repairing an Activa for a year.

Its nice to have something a bit different, anyone can go out and buy a 5 series bmw, but to have something different is what its all about for me, even if its not a perfect design, it doesn't matter.

Most modern cars are very very dull, in fact I can't think of many which are interesting or fun to drive. Something which was highlighted to me when I was driving a 2cv the other week, so much fun I couldnt get the grin off my face.

I certainly doubt that if I owned a BMW 5 series or whatever rep mobile, that I would go out for a nice drive just for the sake of it. I certainly do in the Activa.

I doubt anyone would buy an Activa for a daily driver now, its all about having somehting unusual, something which you enjoy and interests you. Above all, there is no other car with the same advances in suspension of that age, it deserves credit for that. I find the Activa seriously good fun to drive, as standard the engine is a bit flat, but that can easily be improved. To get the handling and ride comfort that a Activa offers is somehting else, Im often going round corners grinning and thinking how odd it feels not to roll and how fast the thing can move round the twisties. I own it because I like it, it suits my driving and its something different - which very very few people will ever get the opportunity to drive, let alone own. For all you say it doesnt really offer any advantages, I really do beg to differ! However yes, in a lot of situations its not needed, I don't use mine everyday as my daily commute is motorways and city driving, the Activa is great at it but its not a route which requires an ARB, let alone ARCS! When I get it on the right roads, at the right speeds, it all makes sense and I realise why I have it.

Im surprised you own a Citroen at all actually, why haven't you got a 5 series? :roll: Xantias are far from perfect, but you still came back to them from a BMW!
Chris
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DickieG
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Re: How much?!!

Unread post by DickieG »

Citroenmad wrote:For all you say it doesnt really offer any advantages, I really do beg to differ! However yes, in a lot of situations its not needed, I don't use mine everyday as my daily commute is motorways and city driving, the Activa is great at it but its not a route which requires an ARB, let alone ARCS! When I get it on the right roads, at the right speeds, it all makes sense and I realise why I have it.
I found it interesting and a bit of fun at first but once I'd experienced it for a few months I realised that unless you're hacking around corners all the time I thought what's the point, especially as the system isn't very reliable and very expensive to maintain in peak condition. A 5 series barely rolls yet the ride is is just as good (unless you specify Sports suspension) and in fact is nicer around corners as it doesn't stiffen so much that becomes jarring like an Activa does. The feedback BMW's offer through the steering is something a Citroen can only dream about due to the geometry not being compromised as goes hand in hand with front wheel drive, as for driving pleasure well you and I must be looking at different things Chris, to say all BMW's are boring is like saying all Citroens have a smooth ride, nothing I've ever driven compared with my E30 M3 which was so unbelievably wonderful to drive that I'd drive it slowly just to make the experience last longer. Compare a standard 525D with an Activa back to back as I did for many months and you'd understand where I'm coming from. Yes Activas are dirt cheap to buy but to run? Most certainly not, by comparison a BMW does cost a lot more to buy but even when they are scrap they are still worth a fair bit due to the demand for parts, which rather surprisingly aren't that that expensive to buy, unlike Mercedes or worse still Audi.

Citroenmad wrote:Im surprised you own a Citroën at all actually, why haven't you got a 5 series? :roll: Xantias are far from perfect, but you still came back to them from a BMW!
I have my HDi as its so cheap to run as a daily hack carrying around my dog etc, I only sold my last 5 Series as I bought the wrong version a 530i Sport and would have bought a another 5 Series if I could have found the right one before my HDi came along, I would still buy another BMW as they are so nice to drive but it would be a 5 rather than a 3 for me personally (the suspension is too firm on a 3) and more than likely a 525D from 2008 onwards without run flat tyres.

Comparing Dawns BMW with all the Citroens I've owned, well as far as reliability her car just works and only requires servicing, just like the cars at work which are thrashed all day every day, if only just one of my Citroens was anywhere near as reliable I'd never consider a BMW but the facts have been laid bare before me over many years and cannot be ignored.
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