help...

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 26 May 2011, 13:21

It's OK, I wouldn't believe it if anyone else had told me, either!

It's just not near so enjoyable to punt as a PSA car. Took the Mi16 out tonight for a blat and what a mood-improver!

Won't recommend one of them to John as they are so rare in the UK...

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 26 May 2011, 15:12

John, that's bloody marvellous news

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 26 May 2011, 20:10

running well but still starting bad... will remove the other glows soon...

I seem to spend a lot of time checking and changing glowplugs !..

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 26 May 2011, 22:18

one of my customers with a Blingo had on going starting prob's,

turned out to be a one way valve at the supply or return union on the fuel pump, it was allowing the fuel to syphon back to the tank over night,

so took lot of crancking to fire up,

regards malcolm

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 26 May 2011, 22:58

thanks Malcolm.. but this is hot starting really.. bound to be another glow I think..

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 27 May 2011, 07:57

ok John but the hotter the engine the less the glow plug are on/cut in for,

regards malcolm

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 27 May 2011, 09:21

almost could not cold start it this morning, took ages and clouds of smoke..
I may have fixed 2 problems and got her running in a fashion, but still something wrong..

will check the two other glow plugs tonight...

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 27 May 2011, 18:19

grrr

whatever was wrong is still wrong .. 24 hours after I got her running and now almost back to the same! completely impossibe to start .. and has got a lot worse since yesterday morning

I can only think that ... the GPs are just not getting any power, or they are and they are staying lit until one goes short circuit.. i.e. after a few hours driving,

in a rush now but need to get my head around this tonight..

drives fine once running.. but impossible to start,,,

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 27 May 2011, 18:34

if glow olugs stay on continuasly they will all burn out,

i saw this on a S reg 306 someone bought to me to look at, 3 weeks after someone elss had fitted a new set of G/P's,

i check them and all 4 were completly dead,

turned out to be the electronic type G/P timmer was powering them continuasly,

i do also have a customer with an N reg 1.9TD XANT which had cold start prob's, even after testing all the G/P's were working off the car across a battery,

i noticed the link cable was a biyt scourched/tarnished at a couple of the crimped terminals,

bought a new cable from citroen about £5 quid, all huncky dorrey after fitting that,

regards malcolm

Xantidote · Unread post by **Xantidote** » 28 May 2011, 17:19

Hi John, hope the house move went OK, despite the car problems.

I think I'd stick a voltmeter from the GPs thick feed cable, to earth, and watch the voltage when you switch on (don't try to start the car). I'd expect 10-12 volts, depending on state of battery and how many GPs are working. Voltage will increase slowly, as the GPs warm up, and after a short time (1/2 minute?), you should hear a click from the control unit, and the voltage will drop to 0. This will tell you if the control unit is working OK. I do recall taking the control unit apart on a BX turbo-diesel, because of starting difficulties, and found the relay's points were well worn/eroded.

If you suspect the control box, you could always consider a jump lead from battery, fixed securely straight to the most accessible GP, and see if it will then start. Once started, remove jump lead at battery. Have to admit I've never had to resort to this, and you'd need to be very careful not to short anything. Be ready for a spark when you connect jump lead to battery - a jump lead with crocodile clip would be useful.

Think if I were doing this, I'd consider disconnecting the GPs cable at the control unit, and insulate the eye on the cable (IIRC, you'd need to remove battery for access). Alternatively, disconnect the feed cable from the control unit at the GPs, pull it out of the way, and wrap in insulation tape to avoid risk of shorting.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 28 May 2011, 18:47

In addition to Martin's excellent advice John, also check they're not staying energised in their 'post heating' phase of operation.

As Martin says, the volts will be there at ignition on and then drop to zero once the relay clicks off. Then, if the engine is cold and idling they will re-ignite after starting. This is their 'post heat' phase. This heating will continue until either the coolant hits 60 degrees or the engines is revved beyond one third throttle.

Once the coolant is fully hot the glowplugs should not re-ignite again.

If you find that the post heat phase carries on indefinitely, you may have a duff coolant temperature sensor as the post heating function is controlled by the engine ECU and not the glowplug timer itself.

Also check you're using the right ones. The TD plugs are different to those specified for a D. D ones are 'quick heat' and will burn out in no time if used on a TD with post heating. Don't ask me how I know...

Correct BERU ones are the GN909.

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 29 May 2011, 08:14

thanks very much Martin and Jim
the move is almost done, what a day! amazingly, the xantia behaved 'quite' well after the initial starting.. (It was always a minor chore to start but at least i could start it all day) It was a godsend having a useable car!

Martin, out of desperation I did try the jump lead to glow plug yesterday morning, and did not seem to make much difference.. the multimeter and most tools were at the new place so I couldn't do much testing..

now i am settling , I will do some tests and report back..
John

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 29 May 2011, 08:36

Pleased the move went well John and that the Xantia proved good on the day

You see a Xantia is a car that can be relied upon in critical situations even if the Frenchness comes out as a bit of a hissy-fit before the big day

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 30 May 2011, 15:00

well i finally managed to get voltmeter on..

about 11.2 with ingtion on, rising steadily to about 11.6 after about 20 seconds, then the relay click, and the voltage drops off to nothing..
so, sounds like that part of the circuit is ok.. I will pull all the plugs out later anyway.. getting used to doing it now

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 30 May 2011, 18:08

That voltage sounds a little on the high side, I would suspect you have probably one or possibly two glow plugs not working

Peter