For ages I have visited, and scoffed at those websites which exist as the result of the owners's frustration with their Citroen. Two sites that spring to mind concern the Xantia and more lately the C5 [8)]] Both of which entertained me as I cackled smugly as a member of this forum and someone with lots of contacts in the Citroen world.
Now I'm off to create "berlingohell.co.uk" or similar.
I've had it.
I've thrown in the towell.
My car is worth little. It does not work correctly. Our local dealer has just gone bust. The next nearest dealer doesn't want to know. I phoned the supplying dealer 110 miles away who tell me that they have had Berlingo 19D's with this fault **** but they're not quite sure what causes it. They then put me through to Sales to PX it against a new one!!!!!!! (they wanted £4200 quid to change, which I'm a bit short of just now)
[:(]
**** Fault is that if you attempt to do over 60 mph over any distance, the engine starts knocking and loses power. I did mention this in August and as a result had a mod done to the pulsed injector wiring. Net result:- worse.****
I went and bought a marker pen today and wrote backwards across my forehead <b>"I will never ever ever buy another bloody new Citroen ever again"</b>. [:(!] (this is so I can remind myself each time I'm in front of the bathroom mirror)
<b>It sucks.</b>
Now off to build website and drive said vehicle into oak tree or similar in hope of insurance money.
I jest.
[:0]
Citroen Hell happens
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AndersDK
- Posts: 6060
- Joined: 21 Feb 2003, 04:56
- x 1
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Jon
Berlingo Multispace 1.9d DW8 2001
It's purpose in life was to transport my wife and 2 baby girls around town, then up to her mother's in London now again. Plus of course serve as family transport for holidays and long journeys.
As it does not seem capable of thse simple tasks at a mere 20,000 miles and just under 2 years its work is mostly undertaken by the 1993 ZX TD, 133,000 miles and 10.5 years old, which is the prefered mode of transport right now for Mrs W and myself if we want to get somewhere reliably and economically without stress, and without loss of power, running on 3 cylinders and with a big knocking noise. Which always goes down well on a busy motorway when you have 2 small children.
I could also go on about the three visits to the Dealer as it was impossible to put any diesel in it (petrol filler neck fitted to diesel car)***, bizarre electrical antics, odd tyre wear; and failure of heated mirrors about 4 weeks after purchase, plus leak from rear window, appalling "economy". I could go on but Alan would moderate me!!
*** This saga took 3 visits to the dealer to get fixed, putting in £10 of diesel could take 10 mins!!! When they eventually changed the filler neck, they managed to damage the rear wing by prying it with a screwdriver to remove the inner plastic shield ***
It's purpose in life was to transport my wife and 2 baby girls around town, then up to her mother's in London now again. Plus of course serve as family transport for holidays and long journeys.
As it does not seem capable of thse simple tasks at a mere 20,000 miles and just under 2 years its work is mostly undertaken by the 1993 ZX TD, 133,000 miles and 10.5 years old, which is the prefered mode of transport right now for Mrs W and myself if we want to get somewhere reliably and economically without stress, and without loss of power, running on 3 cylinders and with a big knocking noise. Which always goes down well on a busy motorway when you have 2 small children.
I could also go on about the three visits to the Dealer as it was impossible to put any diesel in it (petrol filler neck fitted to diesel car)***, bizarre electrical antics, odd tyre wear; and failure of heated mirrors about 4 weeks after purchase, plus leak from rear window, appalling "economy". I could go on but Alan would moderate me!!
*** This saga took 3 visits to the dealer to get fixed, putting in £10 of diesel could take 10 mins!!! When they eventually changed the filler neck, they managed to damage the rear wing by prying it with a screwdriver to remove the inner plastic shield ***
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AndersDK
- Posts: 6060
- Joined: 21 Feb 2003, 04:56
- x 1
Yuk [xx(]
We better stop here - as your frustrations clearly could get things out of (your) hands [8)]
Unfortunately your story is not uncommon - to any car make/dealers - any country.
If any comfort - there seem to be a very good reason why your local dealer went busted. In the end incompetence is allways punished - but sometimes it just takes too long - and too many innocent victims suffers down the route.
The biggest problem with cars are not the technical issues - but imcompetent dealers and their incompetent mechanics.
We better stop here - as your frustrations clearly could get things out of (your) hands [8)]
Unfortunately your story is not uncommon - to any car make/dealers - any country.
If any comfort - there seem to be a very good reason why your local dealer went busted. In the end incompetence is allways punished - but sometimes it just takes too long - and too many innocent victims suffers down the route.
The biggest problem with cars are not the technical issues - but imcompetent dealers and their incompetent mechanics.
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Jon
Hi Anders,
As you see, my rant is not all about "Citroen" in general being rubbish!!!! As you hopefully know, I really love my Citroens, right back to 1984 with my first 2cv and since then GS/GSA, CX, BX, Visa D, C15D, Xantia, BX, ZX etc. Plus many more.
Unfortunately to me, it seems that the product from the last few years is of the lowest quality that I have ever had the misfortune to own.
I thought that I did the right thing back in 2000 when I purchased my first Berlingo for my wife. The problems with that car meant that I was forced to trade it in after just one year for the present Berlingo, which has proved to be basically a shambles. One might hope when "investing" over £9000 that it might be a better car than a 10 year old car, worth very little? Certainly, the 1988 Visa 17D (which the first Berlingo replaced) cost us far less and gave us both less stress. Reality has proved that the older car (the ZX TD), that puts in a punishing 750 miles a week, is far better in terms of reliabilty and economy. That old ZX is appreciated and loved by all who drive it, including myself, as it's main driver. Both cars (Berlingo and Zx) share the same servicing and maintenance schedule but one is happy to exceed over 1000 miles per week many weeks without any cause for doubt, whereas the other, newer car cannot be trusted at all.
As you see, my rant is not all about "Citroen" in general being rubbish!!!! As you hopefully know, I really love my Citroens, right back to 1984 with my first 2cv and since then GS/GSA, CX, BX, Visa D, C15D, Xantia, BX, ZX etc. Plus many more.
Unfortunately to me, it seems that the product from the last few years is of the lowest quality that I have ever had the misfortune to own.
I thought that I did the right thing back in 2000 when I purchased my first Berlingo for my wife. The problems with that car meant that I was forced to trade it in after just one year for the present Berlingo, which has proved to be basically a shambles. One might hope when "investing" over £9000 that it might be a better car than a 10 year old car, worth very little? Certainly, the 1988 Visa 17D (which the first Berlingo replaced) cost us far less and gave us both less stress. Reality has proved that the older car (the ZX TD), that puts in a punishing 750 miles a week, is far better in terms of reliabilty and economy. That old ZX is appreciated and loved by all who drive it, including myself, as it's main driver. Both cars (Berlingo and Zx) share the same servicing and maintenance schedule but one is happy to exceed over 1000 miles per week many weeks without any cause for doubt, whereas the other, newer car cannot be trusted at all.
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wheeler
- Posts: 7893
- Joined: 21 Sep 2002, 19:07
- x 1044
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
**** Fault is that if you attempt to do over 60 mph over any distance, the engine starts knocking and loses power. I did mention this in August and as a result had a mod done to the pulsed injector wiring. Net result:- worse.****
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
software problem ??? has the latest version software been downloaded to the injection ecu from their server,id go for that,if not then the advance electrovalve and/or its connector is where i would look next.
**** Fault is that if you attempt to do over 60 mph over any distance, the engine starts knocking and loses power. I did mention this in August and as a result had a mod done to the pulsed injector wiring. Net result:- worse.****
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
software problem ??? has the latest version software been downloaded to the injection ecu from their server,id go for that,if not then the advance electrovalve and/or its connector is where i would look next.
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AndersDK
- Posts: 6060
- Joined: 21 Feb 2003, 04:56
- x 1
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alan s
- RIP 2010
- Posts: 2542
- Joined: 26 Jan 2001, 15:53
- x 6
.............and now you know why I will never buy a new car.
Worked in the Industry; Ford, Toyota, Peugeot, Renault and Mitsubishi and in my life only ever bought <b>ONE</b> new car, a GMH nightmare.
My motto has always been; let the mugs buy the new cars, have all the headaches and ulcers, lose all the depreciation and think about it; if you're going to sell a troublesome car, what do they <b>always</b> say "As soon as it's going right, I'm gunna get rid of it!!" Also ever heard a dealer say "That car's not going right, just stick it on the lot & sell it!!" No; they go to great lengths to sort the problems best they can and <b>then</b> they sell it. That's when it's the right time to buy.
Option 2 of course is to spend the brass at a decent Dealership & get it sorted as you would if you were going to sell it and instead, keep it & get the benefit yourself.
I'll bet quids it's what has been suggested; requires an update (another reason I like older cars...none of that bull$#!+ to put up with either.[:D]
Alan S [:)]
Worked in the Industry; Ford, Toyota, Peugeot, Renault and Mitsubishi and in my life only ever bought <b>ONE</b> new car, a GMH nightmare.
My motto has always been; let the mugs buy the new cars, have all the headaches and ulcers, lose all the depreciation and think about it; if you're going to sell a troublesome car, what do they <b>always</b> say "As soon as it's going right, I'm gunna get rid of it!!" Also ever heard a dealer say "That car's not going right, just stick it on the lot & sell it!!" No; they go to great lengths to sort the problems best they can and <b>then</b> they sell it. That's when it's the right time to buy.
Option 2 of course is to spend the brass at a decent Dealership & get it sorted as you would if you were going to sell it and instead, keep it & get the benefit yourself.
I'll bet quids it's what has been suggested; requires an update (another reason I like older cars...none of that bull$#!+ to put up with either.[:D]
Alan S [:)]
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rg
- Posts: 280
- Joined: 23 Nov 2002, 02:02
Jon,
You have mmy sincere commiserations. Sometimes vehicles just go beyond a certain "point of no return" in a relationship. I hope that this has not happened to you. But it sounds close.
Try posting on the technical forum at www.honestjohn.co.uk. There is lots of sound, experienced engineering knowledge to be called on there, from indies to heavily-disguised service managers from main dealers. Plus a few folks who have probably had the same problems.
It's certainly worth a try, IMHO.
All the best
rg
You have mmy sincere commiserations. Sometimes vehicles just go beyond a certain "point of no return" in a relationship. I hope that this has not happened to you. But it sounds close.
Try posting on the technical forum at www.honestjohn.co.uk. There is lots of sound, experienced engineering knowledge to be called on there, from indies to heavily-disguised service managers from main dealers. Plus a few folks who have probably had the same problems.
It's certainly worth a try, IMHO.
All the best
rg
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Jon
Thanks to your replies to my rant!!! I lost the plot a bit yesterday after my wife phoned me yet again to say the car wasn't running right and had to stop at the Motorway services so it could "reset itself" for want of a better phrase.
Anyway, perhaps my faith is to be restored. This morning I received a phone call from a Citroen dealer who apologised for not getting back in touch yesterday. I explained the problem(s) with the car and the previous (gone bust now) dealer. Basically, if I get the now due 20K service done with them they are going to investigate my problems (the car not mine!) under warranty.
They also told me that as I am a new customer they will automatically apply the latest software updates as part of the service. They also told me the price of the service, £134.55 and were then keen to tell me where they ranked in the last Customer Satisfaction survey!!
This all seemed very reaonable to me, so i have agreed to take the car there early January.
I'll let you know what happens, and will of course name this dealer then if they sort me out!! Judging by my conversation with them this morning they seem very keen to help.
Anyway, perhaps my faith is to be restored. This morning I received a phone call from a Citroen dealer who apologised for not getting back in touch yesterday. I explained the problem(s) with the car and the previous (gone bust now) dealer. Basically, if I get the now due 20K service done with them they are going to investigate my problems (the car not mine!) under warranty.
They also told me that as I am a new customer they will automatically apply the latest software updates as part of the service. They also told me the price of the service, £134.55 and were then keen to tell me where they ranked in the last Customer Satisfaction survey!!
This all seemed very reaonable to me, so i have agreed to take the car there early January.
I'll let you know what happens, and will of course name this dealer then if they sort me out!! Judging by my conversation with them this morning they seem very keen to help.
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davey
- Posts: 68
- Joined: 05 Dec 2003, 01:56
Sounds like a similar problem i had earlier this year with a berlingo 1.9dump. ECU warning light keep flashing on after a good while driving, rev counter hovered about idle (even thou it really was up about 3000) and it was losing pwr. After lots of checking found severe corrosion inside ecu on the main connector to pcb joints (it was only 2.5 years old!). New one cost a bomb so bought a 'similar'(not identical!) one from a scrappie for a 1.9d van of same year. It worked.
Know what you mean about elec probs, everything is okay on it now but have had many probs with body ecu, c/l, washers, alarm, blower motor etc. Fortunately being a elec eng has helped but would dread to think of cost in dealer bills!
Good Luck.
Know what you mean about elec probs, everything is okay on it now but have had many probs with body ecu, c/l, washers, alarm, blower motor etc. Fortunately being a elec eng has helped but would dread to think of cost in dealer bills!
Good Luck.
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Stuart McB
- Posts: 1635
- Joined: 03 Oct 2003, 00:50
- x 1
I'm a great beliver in that all cars and I mean all cars KNOW when they're winding us (drivers) up. I own an old ZX td it looks a little tatty but I give it a little tlc and so far it's not let me down. It's been serviced, new cam beld etc you get the picture. Now preiously I had a Rover 600 Sli. Perfect woking order agin serviced regular and a little TLC but I made the misstake of saying that it didn't drive, it wofted along and that I relly didn't like it that much, all this said while it could hear me. Guess what? from that moment it didn't work . Not even a little bit. It would work for the wife but not me. She would laugh at me saying "there's nothing wrong it's all in your mind". But I had the last laugh when it was in the rear view mirror of my ZX.
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JohnW
- Posts: 131
- Joined: 09 Dec 2001, 03:40
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by alans</i>
.............and now you know why I will never buy a new car.
Worked in the Industry; Ford, Toyota, Peugeot, Renault and Mitsubishi and in my life only ever bought <b>ONE</b> new car, a GMH nightmare.
My motto has always been; let the mugs buy the new cars, have all the headaches and ulcers, lose all the depreciation and think about it; if you're going to sell a troublesome car, what do they <b>always</b> say "As soon as it's going right, I'm gunna get rid of it!!" Also ever heard a dealer say "That car's not going right, just stick it on the lot & sell it!!" No; they go to great lengths to sort the problems best they can and <b>then</b> they sell it. That's when it's the right time to buy.
Option 2 of course is to spend the brass at a decent Dealership & get it sorted as you would if you were going to sell it and instead, keep it & get the benefit yourself.
I'll bet quids it's what has been suggested; requires an update (another reason I like older cars...none of that bull$#!+ to put up with either.[:D]
Alan S [:)]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Hard to argue with that! Our secondhand Renault R8 has been going pretty well since 1973. Our secondhand Xantia hasn't missed a beat in the first two years. Nor hydraulic issues.
JohnW
.............and now you know why I will never buy a new car.
Worked in the Industry; Ford, Toyota, Peugeot, Renault and Mitsubishi and in my life only ever bought <b>ONE</b> new car, a GMH nightmare.
My motto has always been; let the mugs buy the new cars, have all the headaches and ulcers, lose all the depreciation and think about it; if you're going to sell a troublesome car, what do they <b>always</b> say "As soon as it's going right, I'm gunna get rid of it!!" Also ever heard a dealer say "That car's not going right, just stick it on the lot & sell it!!" No; they go to great lengths to sort the problems best they can and <b>then</b> they sell it. That's when it's the right time to buy.
Option 2 of course is to spend the brass at a decent Dealership & get it sorted as you would if you were going to sell it and instead, keep it & get the benefit yourself.
I'll bet quids it's what has been suggested; requires an update (another reason I like older cars...none of that bull$#!+ to put up with either.[:D]
Alan S [:)]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Hard to argue with that! Our secondhand Renault R8 has been going pretty well since 1973. Our secondhand Xantia hasn't missed a beat in the first two years. Nor hydraulic issues.
JohnW