Fuel prices

[mickthemaverick]

We all know why the fuel companies are raising their prices but I don't believe that there is no profiteering going on in the hope of hiding it in the current climate. As you can see the price varies by 25p a litre between Scarborough and Welwyn Garden City and 5p a litre at the same garage over a weekend!!

I don't believe there is no profiteering going on somewhere here!!

[myglaren]

Just been to Gateshead for a pair of taps, £2.08L diesel on the A1M.

[Must be Mad]

Yes its scandalous so much the government hollow promises on price gouging as they called it the price of crude all has fallen yet pump prices have rocketed even back at start of Russia's illegal invasion of a sovereign country -
March 2022 crude spiked at $130 per barrel, rise in UK average Petrol 165.1p per litre, Diesel 176.2p per litre.
Today hovering just under £100 per barrel, rise in UK average Petrol 172.5p per litre, Diesel 196.5p per litre.

Yes they are averages my area the price is MUCH higher but for fairness of figures kept at UK average.

So if crude oil is cheaper why is Fuel more expensive? Rip Off Britain yet again

This is clearly part of the wider plan 1st strike the so called consultation on emissions, a blunt tool to remove ICE from the roads with unrealistic emission targets, that not quick enough them raise fuel and removed all tax benefits so Electric the only choice. The reaction oh great lets introduce full rate VED aw that's not enough lets heap eVED per per mile on top of that.

Its not even subtle this is a clear attack on the ownership and use of motor vehicles

[RichardW]

Crude price is only part of the story - access to refining capacity and heavy crudes is having an impact on refined product wholesale prices - particularly diesel.

Turns out forcing your in country refining capacity out with high energy costs to allow other people to make it 'cheaper' is a bad idea..... who'd have guessed!?!

[Richard_C]

So if crude oil is cheaper why is Fuel more expensive? Rip Off Britain yet again

It's more complicated than that.

I agree that some outlets, particularly on Motorways, major A roads and so on charge a huge premium and that regional differences within the same retailer are very hard to explain (Tesco typically 8 or 10p more per litre in Cambridgeshire and North Hertfordshire than in Yorkshire and Greater Manchester - you can convince me that distribution costs vary a bit but not by that much) but if we look at the general price we pay there's a lot going on.

First up, published oil market prices are typically for 30 or 90 day futures. Most refiners will try to meet most of their demand that way, but they may need to buy at spot prices for the rest. When the Straits of Hormuz closed there was a premium on spot proces for tankers of real oil the right side of the gulf so there was a spike.

Thne there is what some call the "cracking premium" - the difference between crude and the product you want to sell. At the moment that is very high for Diesel/Heating Oil in particular - global refinery capacity inadequate, northen hemisphere demand for heating oil as winter approaches, refinrers are good old fashined private sector capitalists, its a world market so the higest bidder wins.

Sep 23, 2026, 13:50 GMT extract

The U.S. Gulf Coast diesel crack spread—the premium refiners earn turning crude into diesel—broke above $100 a barrel in August, the first time that gauge has ever reached triple digits.

In ordinary conditions it trades between $15 and $30. Apollo chief economist Torsten Slok argues the spike is not a fleeting energy-line item. It is a core inflation shock.

An extra $75 refining cost immediately adds 47 cents to a litre of refined diesel, 36 pence in our proper money.

To cheer us up even more (not) a few loose words from the US President yesterday sent European prices up:

With flows from the region's top supplier at risk, European diesel's premium to Brent crude jumped to more than $95 a barrel on Wednesday, a record in Bloomberg data going back to 2011. Known as crack spread, the indicator has been keenly watched by central bankers as they seek to tame inflation. The equivalent measure in the US, meanwhile, weakened.

Trump's threat comes as Europe is already grappling with the loss of diesel shipments from the Middle East, and Russian export curbs have tightened the global fuel market further. The US has become Europe's main overseas supplier, with American exports of the workhorse fuel surging to a weekly record near 2 million barrels a day last month.

While the Middle East conflict has brought flows of petroleum products through the Strait of Hormuz down to a trickle, Moscow is set to extend a ban on most diesel exports beyond the end of this month as Ukraine continues to pummel Russia's oil refineries.

The wars have pushed up fuel prices faster than crude, stoking inflation on both sides of the Atlantic. In the US, rising prices at the pump have become a major source of frustration ahead of midterm elections.

Trump said he's encouraged his advisers to support a ban on US diesel exports. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent said officials are looking at whether a full or partial ban would work.

Trump is afraid of losing one or both houses at the mid-terms (November 3rd) and a big issue for many voters are 'gas prices', well over $4 since the Iran war from a President who said he wouldn't get involved in any more wars. Diesel is less 'public' because very few drivers buy it. Its the inflationary pressure as distribution costs rocket - I think its above $6 a gallon now and those big old Peterbuilt trucks get through it. So in one step he can, perhaps, reassure the voters by banning exports which gives the US immediate over capacity so prices fall. Plus it give him another lever to influence (bully) other countries to do as he wishes.

It doesn't really matter where the oil comes from or where the refineries are: world market, world prices unless like Trump you throw out all the international trading norms.

Diesel is particularly hard-hit and the difference between petrol and diesel retail prices in the UK and elsewhere has increased markedly. In France, where historically Diesel has been cheaper than Petrol because of the tax treatment, its c 12% more than Petrol now.

There's also the objectives of the business. If BP or Shell UK retail ran out, thery woudl have no business. If Tesco or Sainsburys runs out, their supermarkets will still function, income (albeit reduced) still flows. They will have different strategies - and financial muscle - in the futures market. So in a shortage its very likely that the big petrol brand buyers have a "never run out" mindset so maybe are prepared to pay a little more. When we have had real queue-at-pump shortages in the UK, fortunately rare and short lived, how happy we were to find stock at almost any price.

Then there is margin and VAT. If you are a retailer do you set your margin at X% - so as bulk cost goes up you price goes up by that plus 10% - ir do you set it at X pence which slightly moderates increases but also leaves you behind in a falling market. We pay fuel duty expressed in pence and VAT expressed as a percentage of the sale - the VAT element in real money goes up as pump price increases.

So the price today reflects world market oil price 90 or 30 days ago, a bit of short term spot pricing, the cost of refining, the retailers strategy, and of course profits along the way. So yes - there may be some profiteering but you can't just look at world oil price and expect immediate retail price falls.

I am pessimistic: I think its going to be a very expensive winter for all of us - gas, petrol, diesel, heating oil, electricity. Wrap up warm and stay at home unless you need to drive to work

[Must be Mad]

yes all fair points, but what cant be ignored is that diesel is less complex and cheaper to refine, what has led to this is systematic failures within successive governments chasing profit and so called green agenda to strip out domestic storage and refinement.
This has been brewing for decades politicians were given a stark warning when Grangemouth was being rundown the foolish lack of action and belief that it would not affect us was short sighted and bordering on criminal levels of incompetence.
Look how many gasometers there used to be all over the country the greedy governments denied infrastructure investment in favour of cheap imports again short sighted and criminal level of incompetence over decades.

We are royally screwed this time as a minority customer we will be squeezed and squeezed to generate more profit, utter madness that our fuel now relies on China, Russia and US, how di we get into this mess when we still have oil and gas in the north sea but now zero facility to refine it.

The game is up private vehicle ownership will be the rich and elite only

[Sloppysod]

Apparently, if Trump bans diesel exports, then the refinners in the US will have to cut back production, because they have limited storage. For example, their production run is 1,000 gallons, US, truckers use 60%, and the other 40% can't be sold, so they cut their production run to cover American customers.
If it happens, a some news analysist, think he will U-turn very quickly.

[Vic Evans]

Over here Diesel is around €2.45 /l (£2.11) in most garages & supermarkets & €2.25 (£1.93) in Total garages. Most stations on our voie express routes are regularly showing prices of €99999 on all fuels indicating they have none to sell.
Our local garage is a Total franchise & is situated on the main route in/out of our town.
Long queues regularly form on the road when fuel is available causing grid lock & chaos in town.
Mme had to top up a hire car before returning it tomorrow & queued for over half an hour to get petrol this afternoon.
I've just got my Pug 806 back & topped it up with 40 litres of my tractor stock diesel.
Hard to believe I used to fill up the 80 litre tank on the 806 for about €60 when we moved here about 23 years ago.

[Must be Mad]

The world has gone truly mad

[PaulC5]

The world has gone truly mad

Possibly just a few leaders.

[Richard_C]

Apparently, if Trump bans diesel exports, then the refinners in the US will have to cut back production, because they have limited storage.

But he won't. He may announce a ban, see US prices drop and maybe get a few more republican congressmen elected, but then allow limited exports to selected well behaved countries who won't tax the US based tech giants, who don't apply reciprocal tarrifs to US goods, who pull back from regulating online content and access, who will allow unregulated cryptocurrency transactions, who won't complain about US funding of far right pressure groups and perhaps countries who will enhance the Trump family fortune by tuning a blind eye to hotels and golf courses in prime locations.

In his, and now the USAs, wholly transactional view of the world it's just another tool. A tool which has more power now that his actions have cut supplies from the middle east and put Venezuela's oil under US control.

We think fuel prices are bad now: just wait..... (I hope I'm wrong)