Sneaky government

[Steve Walsh]

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... QkSNOiRITg](https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... QkSNOiRITg)

This will put a lot of cars off the road

[mickthemaverick]

I have just read that through and honestly don't think it holds any fears because the basic condition is that a car's emissions must meet the standard in force at the time of manufacture so a well maintained vehicle should be fine. If it helps get some of the badly maintained 'smokers' off the road I'm in favour of that!!

[PaulC5]

If it is intended to check emission levels are to the standard when the vehicle was designed, then the exhaust gas test will need to cover more things than just say soot level for diesels. Any other checks to see if the vehicle has been modified could be a lot more complicated. MOT tests are likely to be more expensive.

Some time back I think it was reported car emissions in real life are higher than the manufacturers tests so it will be interesting to see if this is still the case and if cars would fail any new legislation.

[Stickyfinger]

Look with care at the wording, it is designed to get people saying..."oh that is alright if...."

What a clever con that is.

[Sloppysod]

I think it's a good idea, I have a seen many diesel cars where the back end is covered in soot, and have been woken up at night by a loud exhausts.
Yes it will get the badly modified or maintained vehicles off the road mainly due to extortionate repair costs. But, if the engine has not been looked after, what else hasn't.
And what about those who own VW's, they could never meet the pre-sale standards.

[Richard_C]

The important part is this exemption:


the reason for the vehicle having excess emissions is something outside the control of the owner/ user, where: the cause is not a modification made once the vehicle is in-use, normal servicing would not fix the problem and all emission‑control devices (such as a DPF) are present and working correctly

So if you have failed to maintain it or have deliberately altered it, you are in difficulty. If you have done all that you can, you are OK. Or, I guess, if you had purchased a vehicle like a diesel that purports to be Euro 6 but isn't - not that any manufacturers would tell lies - you should be OK because as long as its properly maintained / unaltered its something outside the control of the owner.

I used to think a lot of legialation was there to make life difficult for drivers and raise revenue, profits or costs but when you read about the real health benefits it made me think differently.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/article ... children-/

And based on health data we wouldn't go back to leaded petrol.

https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/p ... -planetary

[Hell Razor5543]

I wonder how a 'new' owner would be treated if an unscrupulous previous owner of a vehicle had 'deleted' a DPF system just before selling the vehicle on?

[Must be Mad]

Huge problems with sections of this

We have chosen not to distinguish between excess emissions caused by poor maintenance of a vehicle and those caused by modifications made to vehicles.

Similarly, we do not propose to distinguish unintentional and deliberate modifications made to the ECS, nor whether these are through hardware or software alterations. The environmental and health impacts of excess emissions are the same, regardless of the reason. Such distinctions can also be difficult to evidence and would make enforcement unreasonably difficult.

So basically even if you have not intentionally modified your vehicle you will still be liable, where does this end? who defines what is good maintenance? What if you have bought a 2nd hand car with EGR delete still physically there but software delete how is the average owner to know that or have any means to test that. My C4 B7 1.6 HDI - no fault lights no indication on car at all, only when i plugged in scanner did it say EGR fault. how it Joe Bloggs with a cheap old car meant to know this? legal mine field.

It also mentions ad blue delete, will this apply to PAT/Eoyls Fuid as well then?

Emissions standards are regulated in accordance with this broad framework and manufacturers must also demonstrate that their emissions technology performs as expected for 100,000 km or 5 years, whichever occurs sooner. This applies to properly maintained and used vehicles. A durability requirement also applies to separate pollution control devices, such as catalytic converters, which must last for 160,000 km

This is really dangerous ground this implies that ECS systems only need to be built to last 100,000km, this leaves it open for manufactures to build in obsolescence at huge cost, leaving the a car a6 66k miles non compliant and open to massive fines (£1000 or unlimited). This also implies that a DPF only needs to last 160,000km this is feeding the myth that all DPFs need replaced based on mileage when data now shows a good off car clean to remove the ash as well as the soon brings them back into spec. This totally goes against wide EU regs about long term repairability and reduction of waste.

Its states all enforcement will be carried out by the DVSA- great so now going to have these clown pull you over for roadside check base on number plate recognition flagging up all euro 5 and 6 diesels

It also widens this to motorbikes, i mean come on we really saying the tiny amount of motorbikes are an environmental issue, most are summer use and no diesel bikes exist, the regs are very different for bikes Euro3 did not apply until 2007, this seems crazy to go after such a small group.

This is definitely part of the pincer movement EVs hugely efficient cheap to run UKG response lets tax the s**t out of it start with big VAT grab and make public charging unaffordable (if they could identify EV charging form household use they would go after that as well) then apply full VED then on top of that apply VED per mile that will screw them, not content lets look to next more efficient means diesel, right lets whack duty on fuel up as far as we can until road haulage screams enough. How else can we screw them ah emissions lets set the bar so high they cant use them without limitless fines. Petrol will be next only the uber rich and elite will be permitted to use private transport UKG wants to control your every move

[CitroJim]

I see no mention of vehicles (or classic cars) either fuelled by petrol or diesel approaching and over 40 years of age that had no significant emission control systems fitted by their manufacturer. So presumably they, being small in number on UK roads and like motorcycles, no great contributors to pollution, will remain exempt.

I agree there's no objection in principle to this proposal. Sadly it's not at all unusual to see modern diesels, especially vans, being very smoky and sooty and we know diesels that lack the necessary functional ECS are not good for our health. Such vehicles appear to smoke/soot-up a lot worse than say, a well-maintained older diesel with no ECS generally does... I'm all for smoky and clearly poorly maintained vehicles being taken off our roads...

[Must be Mad]

In general i agree but why they want drag motorbikes into this is beyond me!

This is a blunt tool aimed at Euro 5 and 6, to suggest a 15 year old engine will have the same emissions not only of a brand new one but the type approval version tested in the perfect environment and conditions.

Testing should be beefed up at MOT but on sliding scale if an engine done 200k no way a good as a new one this is just a backdoor to killing ICE to get us onto EVs then pay perm mile and full monitoring of usage

[Stickyfinger]

this is just a backdoor to killing ICE to get us onto EVs then pay perm mile and full monitoring of usage

BINGO....

See also, impacts on the Garages, After Market Parts etc etc....and massive numbers of ever so planet friendly Chinese EV's

[PaulC5]

Maybe such as the Chinese are pushing for legislation so their cars can take over the world and keep up growth targets. Most of the EVs I see are Korean or the various Chinese brands. Sometimes wonder if unfriendly governments also help with migration to destabilise countries.

[mickthemaverick]

Just imagine 35% + of our cars being Chinese EVs updated over the air by their Chinese makers, only need to throw a switch to disable a third of our transport!!

[Paul-R]

Or command the cars to revolt against their drivers!

[CitroJim]

I think you'll find the invasion of Chinese EVs is inevitable and there's absolutely stuff-all we can do about it. They're being pushed at us from every angle...

Even down to the motoring column in our local monthly magazine: every month we read in glowing terms about the latest Chinese EV and how awesome they are.

Like it or not, it's the future.