1.6hdi c5 stall no start issue

[petey11]

Hi All
Today my C5 2011 1.6hdi decided to throw a wobbly. It was running, developed a judder and loss of power and stalled. Would not restart. Got towed home by RAC and tech said possible cam belt breakage as the code he read was crank/cam sync off.

Plugged in my diag and returned codes
P0016
P0620
P0341
along with generic starting time codes.
It also threw an ABS code regarding P0562 (low voltage condition)which has since cleared.
I also have an Eolys pump code that i need to look at (still seems to be regening every 200-300miles)

It will only crank for a short time, 1 or 2 seconds. I managed to partially undo the upper timing belt cover and put a mark on the belt and it looks like it is turning. When I have more time (have to try and find a stubby 7mm socket0 I'm going to try and remove upper cover fully to take a proper look. The belt seems ok from what i can tell with current limited access.
The starting symptoms to me seem like bad battery/earth with the alternator code throwing as well or if timing has gone way out could the engine be locking. If the belt had snapped wouldn't the engine crank as normal, all be it a little easier? Would a faulty cam sensor cause it to stall mid run? It has seems a little down on power recently. I had no warning lights or faults appear on the dash either. I may change the cam sensor for the sake of £25 but if the cam belt has gone and done cam/rocker valve damage I'm afraid it may be time for the dismantlers. I will be gutted as only been back on the road for a year and in that time had an oil cooler, injector replacement £500 and the real kicker was gear linkage replacement at £800 and just to top it off I had to replace the passenger wiper motor as well.
Could it be the alternator suffered a catastrophic event throwing too much voltage and then circuit went into protection by earthing it.

Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

[BarneyRubble]

Hi petey11,

I wonder has your timing belt maybe jumped a tooth or shredded a tooth or something? This might be the reason for the hard start / crank-no-start / no sync. First thing I'd do is check the sensors (cam, crank) are plugged in, not frayed etc., and see if they are still working. Start with this as it's the cheapest fix / diagnostic. Here's a video to help with testing cam sensors

If the sensors all check out, then check the timing is correct. Here's a great video on exactly where the timing marks are on all the pulleys for a 1.6HDi engine, yours will be very similar. You just need to get a jack under the engine to support it, remove driver side engine mounts and remove all the covers. Once you start to time the engine you'll be able to rule the belt in or out.

The cost of a complete OEM Citroen replacement belt, pump and gaskets is £200 on autodoc with many other premium brands under half that.

hth, good luck!

[petey11]

Thanks Barney Rubble for the info. I'm going to have a look at the sensor as fault code has associated variables with it and one of them is no signal so may be that. I'll also check the cam belt is turning as well once I get the top cover off.
Thanks

[petey11]

Up date. Removed the top can belt cover and the camshaft is not turning, it tries to turn but just jerks forward a bit. I marked the auxiliary belt pulley and alternator pulley and bother turn.
I'm now suspecting either the belt has lost teeth and is just spinning on the timing crank pulley or the crank pulley has lost its teeth.

Has anyone had a top end camshaft replacement as I suspect the rockers have sacrificed or the cam lobes have turned on the shaft. Do you think it has done any valves.

I've costed up parts at about £300-£400 for cam kit , timing kit and pulley.
I'm in two minds if it's time to say goodbye to the car. Possibility of doing the work my self is slim, if I did attempt it it would probably take me a couple of weekends and then might be no better if the valves have gone.Alternative is I might be looking at £1000 if I could find a mobile mechanic to do the work.
I've recently had an injector changed (£500), gear change linkage (£800), window mechanism x 2 (£70), wiper motor (£100).

The car is C5 estate on 2011 plate with just under 100k miles so I expect DPF will be the next.

Anyone had any experience with the timing/cam issue advice would be appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

Any advice

[RichardW]

2011 is on the change over from the earlier 16V to the 8V DV6C - do you now which one yours is?

[shtu]

If the timing has jumped, it is likely you will require new camshaft(s), as well as the more normal followers, etc. The lobes are pressed-on, and turn slightly on the shaft.

However, this does save the engine in other ways, so it's not all bad, it's just not obvious.

Get a set of timing tools for a start, they're cheap and it will give you some idea what's going on.

[petey11]

Richard, it's a 9hl engine code, injector at rear so think it is 8 valve sohc.
sthu, I was considering removing the full cover to see what's going on. Do you know if it's possible to remove the lower cover without removing the engine mount?

[petey11]

My other concern would be undoing the crank pulley bolt, the locking pin thing I've searched ix throwing up different locations etc.

[RichardW]

If it's an 8V it makes life easier as there's only 8 rockers to go at! It's broken anyway so you might as well strip it down.... You can remove the upper rocker cover and have a look down past the camshaft to see if there are broken rockers; to remove the lower carrier you need to strip the cam belt off. Once you get the cam out it should be obvious if any valves have shed a spring or are sitting lower and therefore bent. At the very least you will need timing belt set and camshaft; may need a few rockers; worst case it has done a valve or two and the head needs to come off (or stick another engine in!). If it sounds 'normal' when cranking then good chance it has not done a valve.

The crank pulley is not that tight - given yours has broken at 100k, good chance the belt has never been changed. The hole for the holding pin is in the engine back plate above the exhaust flexi, there is just about enough room to fiddle the pin in without removing the exhaust. TBH you can probably hold it on the brakes - not like you are going to do any more damage to the engine if it slips back a bit!

This video from about 41 mins gives an overview of the process; this one went at low speed, and remarkably didn't do any rockers, just spun the cam lobes!

[petey11]

Thanks for the info Richard. Think I'll SORN it for now and maybe have a look when I get some spare time. Worst case scenario is sell it as a non runner if I think it's too much for me to do. It's like you said, nothing to lose as it's going nowhere now anyway. The fault codes on sensors triggered at about 1200rpm so engine wasn't going great guns.
Thanks again

[shtu]

My other concern would be undoing the crank pulley bolt, the locking pin thing I've searched ix throwing up different locations etc.

Covers etc - no idea, never been that far in.

Crank pulley isn't too bad. An impact wrench is the way to go to undo it.

On the 9HL there are two crank locking locations, one off the front of the crank, and one at the gearbox end.

The fiver-a-go locking pin sets are fine.

[RichardW]

On the 9HL there are two crank locking locations, one off the front of the crank, and one at the gearbox end.

There's much confusion about this - the one on the timing ring behind the crank pulley is the timing point and needs to be set with the cam and pump when the belt is put on. The other is as I described in the engine back plate above the exhaust flexi - this is NOT a timing point, it is only for locking the crank for loosening / tightening the crank pulley bolt and is off set from the timing point (maybe 1/4 crank turn so the pistons are halfway down the bores).