AL4 Gearbox advice

[haf_12]

Hi, new to the forum and in desperate need for advice/help..

I have a Peugeot 207 with the AL4 automatic gearbox. It's triggering a 'Gearbox Fault' with a thud during motorway deceleration. The local garage stuck some diagnostics on it and it showed a solonoid fault. A gearbox oil change was done which helped, but the fault remains - even though the car is feeling smoother. I only see it on the motorway - usually when slowing down at an exit where the car jumps to 3rd gear and stays there until it's switched off/on which makes it all ok again. I have called numerous peugeot local garages who all say they don't do solenoid changes and I need to use a gearbox specialists - who in turn say that they will only do a gearbox replacement as they usually find there are other issues so are not able to provide any sort of guarantee or even that the gearbox will work after the change. Unfortunately the cost of the gearbox is too high at 2.5k for a 20 yer old car - even though it has less than 40k on the clock and 1 owner so in good shape. The cost of the solenoids isn't much but no-one is even willing to give me a price.

Hopefully someone here has had something similar and can advice a way forward - I am in Birmingham/Warwick area.

Thanks

[mickthemaverick]

If you click on the Peugeot at the end of this thread link above it will take you to the Peugeot forum with all threads available. Then put AL4 in the search box and you will find many threads discussing the solenoids etc. Good luck

[xantia_v6]

Solenoid change on an AL4 is within the range of competent DIY, but if your existing solenoids are the early type, then the transmission ECU will require a software update for compatibility with the later (more reliable) solenoids.

I am sure that there are some garages out there who will do this work, the trick is to identify one within reasonable distance.

[haf_12]

Zero success on finding anyone willing to do the solonoid change so far but a local pegeout garage said they would use Lexia diags to reset the oil counter (as oil has been changed recently as a attempt at a fix) and also reset various other things to do with the gearbox plus check the error codes. See what happens but the non-lexia diags pointed to solonoid fault so am not too hopeful. Very much looking like the car is going to get scrapped and buy something else for the 2.5k that its going to take to replace the gearbox.

[ozfrog]

Is the fault likely to cause a breakdown?

I lived with a faulty AL4 transmission in a 306 Cabriolet for quite some time, and the previous owner told me about the problem when I purchased the car. Obviously, he knew about it as well. In the boot of the car was a generic filter and gasket kit from a car accessory shop where he worked part-time. He never fitted it, and we didn't bother with it. But the fault with the transmission was not what killed the car. I've gone into detail about that elsewhere on this site.

My feeling is that if you don't think that the thud is going to cause a breakdown, then you should be able to keep driving the car, but possibly avoid motorways and take the scenic route instead! Others might disagree, and that's fine.

[ozvtr]

That's a pity.
I've changed the two modulator solenoids on three Citroen C3s and it's not that hard.
There are dozens of YouTube videos on changing the solenoids.
From what I can see it's much easier to change them on a Peugeot, as the lower radiator hose and the radiator fan are not in the way.
If the gearbox solenoids have the "old" white connectors BUT it was built after the year 2000, you wont need to update the gearbox ECU firmware.

[haf_12]

Thanks for the feedback and I paid £50 to have the Lexia diags done and I have attached the report - clearly pointing to the solenoids. The other error code was a fault in the brake switch but that was an easy & cheap swap so got from ebay and did it myself. I have to do a 20 mile motorway trip 3 times a week and thats the majority of times when it happens i.e a thud and a switch into 3rd gear - though the thud has got milder since the partial oil change and the frequency has reduced a fraction. At the moment I will just carry on as usual and monitor to see if it gets more frequent and if I start to see it when not on the motorway. Clearly it's not sustainable long term. The main reason I took it to him was that a few other folks said the gearbox oil counter will have to be reset after changing the oil in order to see any benefit hence the Lexia diags but it turns out that the counter can only be reset after it reaches 3000 and mine was at 900 due to the cars low milage even though its a 2007 model.

The garage guy was very familiar with the fault and said they used to do lots of them a decade ago and it was £7-800 inc. the gearbox 're-adaptation' and various resets via the drag s/w. At that time the garage took out the solonoid 'block' and sent it to someone who did the swap - unfortunately he has long since retired so they stopped doing the work. He even said if I could find someone to do the swap, he would do the drag resets. Have posted on Facebook etc in the hope of someone willing to do it as my local mechanic said he may look to take of the block but fiddling about with solenoid and pressures wasn't something he wanted to do either.


Am now on the hunt for either a bmw 1 series or a bmw i3 both 2016ish at around 6-7k. If I find a good deal I will probably just go for it - no ida what to do with the 207 as doubt its worth anything much. Give the horrendous road tax and fuel efficiency of the 207, I can probably make a huge saving by switching to a 1 series diesel or electric. Will see if the 207 can keep going till the summer...

[ozfrog]

Am now on the hunt for either a bmw 1 series or a bmw i3 both 2016ish at around 6-7k. If I find a good deal I will probably just go for it - no ida what to do with the 207 as doubt its worth anything much. Give the horrendous road tax and fuel efficiency of the 207, I can probably make a huge saving by switching to a 1 series diesel or electric. Will see if the 207 can keep going till the summer...

What reputation do used German cars have in the U.K.?

In Australia, you can certainly find what you’re looking for because current owners don’t want to pay the expensive repair bills.

A friend of mine bought a new Mini Cooper S when he retired. He really liked the car. But when the warranty expired, he didn’t like the car very much at all. I know the mechanic he used because he and I used the same one. He was not an expensive mechanic, but still the repair bills on the Mini Cooper S were enough for my friend to leave the car in the garage and drive his wife’s early model Kia until the Mini got sold. I don’t know what he’s bought since the bad experience with the Mini, but I don’t think it’s going to be another German car.

What’s so bad about the 207’s fuel economy?

And I don’t understand how the U.K. road tax system works. What are you penalised for?

[ozvtr]

"Valve block" is typically known as the valve body.
Requested pressure 6.5 BAR actual pressure, 6.8 BAR. That's what it probably didn't like. Although, that's not a massive deviation. So not so sure about that!
4th gear, manual mode and 3000RPM...interesting. No speed on the readout. Mine typically failed at a "cruise" speed. Looks like that here too.
These problems can some times be caused by the pressure sensor not reading the pressure correctly. But I don't think that's the case here.
Changing the modulator valves on the valve body only requires one bolt (per solenoid).
There is no adjustment required to the pressure regulators in the valve body. At least I haven't come across that problem. Adjusting the pressure regulators requires specialized equipment and is not something to be taken lightly.
The hardest part is re-aligning the selector quadrant, the gear selector in the cabin and the position switch. A bit of mucking around but not impossible.
Auto adaptives and the oil counter do virtually nothing IMHO! I have "fiddled" with both and can feel no discernable difference to the performance of the gearbox!

[haf_12]

What reputation do used German cars have in the U.K.?

In Australia, you can certainly find what you’re looking for because current owners don’t want to pay the expensive repair bills.

A friend of mine bought a new Mini Cooper S when he retired. He really liked the car. But when the warranty expired, he didn’t like the car very much at all. I know the mechanic he used because he and I used the same one. He was not an expensive mechanic, but still the repair bills on the Mini Cooper S were enough for my friend to leave the car in the garage and drive his wife’s early model Kia until the Mini got sold. I don’t know what he’s bought since the bad experience with the Mini, but I don’t think it’s going to be another German car.

What’s so bad about the 207’s fuel economy?

And I don’t understand how the U.K. road tax system works. What are you penalised for?

The German cars here have a reputation for quality and reliability here and something like the 1/3 series sold by the gazillion so pretty much every garage can do maintenance with parts being available very easily.
207 fuel economy is dire as its a 4 speed gearbox and on the motorway especially it just drinks fuel in 4th - which seems to be optimised for 40-50mph not 60-70. As my car shifts down to 3rd when it fails then thats revving at some stupid rate at 60-70mph so it's even worse. It has a high rev shift from what I can see so even in the city it's in 2nd or 3rd at best so fuel consumption is not good in either city or m/way.
The annual road tax (based on co2 emissions etc) on the 20 year old 207 is now £300 and on the 1 series I am looking at its £20 - and thats a 10 year new car.

Originally the 207 was hardly used - as a second car (20k miles in 10 years) but it's been used more now and the fuel/tax costs are very noticeable.

[haf_12]

"Valve block" is typically known as the valve body.
Requested pressure 6.5 BAR actual pressure, 6.8 BAR. That's what it probably didn't like. Although, that's not a massive deviation. So not so sure about that!
4th gear, manual mode and 3000RPM...interesting. No speed on the readout. Mine typically failed at a "cruise" speed. Looks like that here too.
These problems can some times be caused by the pressure sensor not reading the pressure correctly. But I don't think that's the case here.
Changing the modulator valves on the valve body only requires one bolt (per solenoid).
There is no adjustment required to the pressure regulators in the valve body. At least I haven't come across that problem. Adjusting the pressure regulators requires specialized equipment and is not something to be taken lightly.
The hardest part is re-aligning the selector quadrant, the gear selector in the cabin and the position switch. A bit of mucking around but not impossible.
Auto adaptives and the oil counter do virtually nothing IMHO! I have "fiddled" with both and can feel no discernable difference to the performance of the gearbox!

Thanks for the extra info and explaining things a bit more. That is definitely a job for someone who knows what they are doing to some degree and has the right tools - the video of the guy stripping down the complete front of the car before he even got to the gearbox was enough to tell me there is scope for all sorts of things to go wrong on the way and there are various posts of folks having trouble with the pressures you mention.

[ozvtr]

No disrespect, but I feel sorry for you guys in Europe.
It's the wild west out here in Oz, particularly up here in Queensland. "Road tax" (we call it "rego", registration) is only based on the number of cylinders and engine capacity. Not the age of the car or emissions. No MOT here in Queensland. You'd think there would be a lot of "old clunkers" on the road, but that's not the case. Proving that annual inspections are a waste of time.
Rego is really an administration fee, it doesn't contribute a lot to the "roads". It does contribute to the state roads, but most comes from the federal government. See below.
Attached to the rego is compulsory third party, which covers injury to the driver and passengers.
Insurance of the vehicle is optional, not compulsory! That's the vehicle owners problem! From what I can see, as soon as the government makes something compulsory, the cost goes through the roof.
"Road improvement" is funded from the federal government via a fuel excise, so our fuel is a bit more expensive.
There is a bit of a kerfuffle ATM with electric cars, as they don't use fuel and therefore don't contribute to the road improvement fund...and yet use the roads.

[mickthemaverick]

If only things were as simple here!!

However there is a developing issue for you with the growth of electric cars. Not only do they use your roads without contributing but in truth they generally wear them more being on average much heavier and more powerful than ICE cars. The additional weight and power means more friction between wheels and road surface which will be a bigger contributer to surface degradation. A reality being proven on a daily basis in the UK by the rapid increase of potholes and surface degradation as the vehicles have got heavier!!

Hopefully your government will catch on to that and do something about it!

[haf_12]

If only things were as simple here!!

However there is a developing issue for you with the growth of electric cars. Not only do they use your roads without contributing but in truth they generally wear them more being on average much heavier and more powerful than ICE cars. The additional weight and power means more friction between wheels and road surface which will be a bigger contributer to surface degradation. A reality being proven on a daily basis in the UK by the rapid increase of potholes and surface degradation as the vehicles have got heavier!!

Hopefully your government will catch on to that and do something about it!

yes we know pay full road tax and in many cases more than the ice cars and there is talk of road pricing per mile for electric cars only. The result of both is more likely to be a reduction in e's as the financial incentives are largely eroded so the 'going green' objective will likely be pushed back.