Falcon's Bargain Basement Motoring

[MattBLancs]

Coolant sensor as filtering through to the dash temp guage working normally.

I'm not clued up on Renault really, some cars single sensor feeds gauge and ECU (or rather sensor feeds ECU, ECU both sorts out the mixture and feeds the gauge), others have two separate coolant sensors: one just for gauge, one just for the ECU.

(And indeed some can have a third, more likely temperature switch then sensor dedicated to the task of energising the radiator fan when the rad is (too) hot.)

Air Intake Temperature sensor, if its in the location I am thinking of probably employed by the ECU in the fuel ratio setting.

My understanding: coolant temperature is effectively "is the engine cold or warmed up?" Information. Richer mix when cold (i.e. equivalent of "pull the choke out" on a carb engine)

Air temperature sensor will also feed the mixture setting too I believe

Maybe Redex is working its magic, or ithe BB Clio appreciated some clean spark plugs!

Neil

Fingers crossed!

[NewcastleFalcon]

Some things take a bit of finding. I can confirm that on the D4F 712 Engine the Intake Air Temperature Sensor cannot be seen on view anywhere in the engine bay or on the visible part of the Intake Manifold. Similarly if you are looking for the throttle body to be visible in the engine bay, with the BB Clio's version of the Renaults D4F engine you will not be able to see it.

In the case of the Throttle Body this is mounted to the underside of the plastic Air Intake Manifold....and the IAT sensor is mounted on the throttle body.

Probably the only picture on the internet of the said IAT sensor in situ on the Throttle Body comes from Lancs Dave on Renault Forums.co.uk

Lancashire lads know their stuff Matt!

https://www.renaultforums.co.uk/threads ... ost-936003

Neil

[NewcastleFalcon]

I have given an airing to the EVAP system and its purge valve "running on" when the ignition switched off, and the carbon cannister behind the headlight hidden by the wheel arch liner. 100% I attribute the "petrol niff" element of the BB Clio to the EVAP system.

Just as an aside I put "cannister" into an FCF search and landed on several EVAP sagas, including this thread from
Mike (@XantiaV6.) Petrol fumes from THP engine

viewtopic.php?t=64523

Elsewhere, lets face it the 23 year old Clio and Its 23 year old Carbon Canister is hardly likely to be as effective as it once was, and indeed probably 3 times its expected expiry date. That combined with a fairly obviously malfunctioning purge valve clicking away after the engine is switched off and look no further..that's where the petrol niff originates.

Neil

[NewcastleFalcon]

£74.50 buys a brand new RENAULT CLIO 2 2001- KANGOO 1 2003- Carbon Canister Vapour Filter 8200672360 from e-bay

Seller jmcarpartz has sold 59 of them and only one left! Others available from Poland for a bit heavier delivery charge.

While I think the e-vap vapour recycling into the inlet manifold is not a major causal factor in the hesitation/stutter/surge back to full power intermittent events, the petrol niff needs addressing in any case to return the BBClio to a pleasant place to enjoy the full bargain basement motoring experience.

The solution for a price lies waiting.

Neil

[NewcastleFalcon]

Today saw the inlet manifold removed, not on the bench still with a few wires attached, but enough free rein to peek underneath at the throttle body.

Yes the Intake Air Temperature sensor is there poking into the airflow just before the throttle valve. I will describe the throttle valve orifice for you awkward taking a pic. Yes I would describe it as not in the tiniest bit sooty or deposity, and hardly worth a squirt of stuff to clean it! I don't think that valve is "stiicky" in the least. Not a good idea to manually poke them, upsets things with the electrics/electronic fly by wire operation.

Was following the throttle body removal video linked to earlier in the thread, his car didn't have aircon though. Yes the inlet manifold bolts are much more readily removable in the video than with the BB Clio, the difference being the BB Clio has an Air Con compressor and its plumbing in the way!

This pic probably doesn't show things very clearly, but take it from me the Air con compressor needed unmounting (pretty simple) to gain access to some of the inlet manifold bolts to get a tool in to undo them.

Neil

[mickthemaverick]

Well even if it looks OK, at least you can clean the plug contacts and I'd give the sensor a squirt with the correct cleaner sold for that purpose:

BFTW

[NewcastleFalcon]

Thanks Mick, I will be giving it a gentle clean up of course, silly not too! That isn't the airflow sensor in the throttle body, Mick its just an air temperature sensor. The Clio 1.2 16V D4F engine doesn't have a MAF just a MAP (the new one which I have, as yet uninstalled!)

How far I carry on with the dismantling, ie removing the fuel rail and injectors from the manifold possibly to test/clean/refurb the injectors remains to be seen. Tested a couple of coil packs today. It was in a bit of a "most likely a coil pack so just replace it", when a couple of years ago there was a misfiring problem, and that appeared to solve the problem. Still kept the old coil pack in the garden shed.

Today I did a few multimeter tests on the old pack as per this video from the excellent sockets and sideburns channel. The old pack was out of spec and the one on the car..in spec! quite reassuring!



Neil

[mickthemaverick]

Yes I realise yours is not a flow sensor Neil, I showed that cleaner as a safe cleaner to use in the air system. The temperature sensor itself may have a 'gummy' surface and hence not give true readings of the temperature so possibly worth a clean while you have access.

[NewcastleFalcon]

The bits are off

Throttle Body Its had a spray of carb cleaner so looks shinier than it was. It did have a small degree of black stuff round the edges.

Inlet Manifold and injector rail

the void on taking off the intake manifold ah the wonderful crankcase ventilation system discharging into the air box, and depositing a nice pool of oil. Not sure what the "grill" thing is maybe its a vent thing to make sure the cabin gets the benefit of a hot-oil smell!

EDIT This problem of oil in the airbox appears to be ubiquitous for the Clio. Crankcase vapours oil and all are vented directly into the large plastic airbox (filter on the D4F 712 is at the side of this), and oil accumulates at the lowest point. Long thread here on Renault Forums https://www.renaultforums.co.uk/threads ... rbox.68736 without solution the design creates the problem.

Neil

[NewcastleFalcon]

Each of the 4 injectors reads 14.1 ohms across the pins, a good sign.

They obviously work and right across the rev range when the car is "on" i.e. not hesitating/then back onto full power.

Many you tube videos for "cleaning" by activating the injectors off vehicle with a 12V feed pulsing cleaner from an aerosol through but I have mused that sending petrol through the injectors at greater pressure goodness knows how many times /second at 4.000 rpm is surely going to blast any cloggage out far more effectively in normal operation. It's indirect injection as well into a plastic manifold, not sitting poking into the more hostile environment of the combustion chamber itself.

Neil

[NewcastleFalcon]

"Best I could come up with was Intellectual Stimulation, an inherent persistence to try to solve puzzles, and a desire should the car be moved on that the new custodian receives a car in good working order.."

In the interests of that philosophy this little package may assist. I have done most jobs to maintain and repair the family fleet, but have never tried to refurbish petrol injectors. Something new! (whether they need it or not!). You tube vids suggest its not that difficult and a clean and refurb is worth a go,

Neil

[mickthemaverick]

I have fond memories of refurbing the injectors on my Celica. No clue about the process just the hiding I got when the then SWMBO came home early and found me at the kitchen table surrounded by injectors and 'O' rings!! The "I needed somewhere spotlessly clean" didn't cut it and it cost me a night out in the West End. It was worth it though because the car ran even better after the job

[NewcastleFalcon]

I have darkened the doors of Autodoc, might be the first time, for the fiddly bits and pieces air intake rectangular gasket where the plastic intake meets with the top end of the engine and four separate little manifold gaskets where the four plastic tentacles meet with the ports in the cylinder head at the front, and an air intake temperature sensor. Bit pricy for delivery but the parts tend to be cheaper.

Neil

[NewcastleFalcon]

While further tinkering on the BB Clio awaits parts delivery, not in any particular order the conveyor belt of Falcon Bargain basement cars reads Clio £...six bottles of wine, Corsa £125, Corsa £100, Micra £100. Each provided over 40,000 miles motoring with the Clio 46,000 and still counting if and when it is put back together!

The full set so far.

Neil

[NewcastleFalcon]

Did a little more dismantling of a gentle nature in an upright position.

The upright position being important in that I am now a fair weather tinkerer and am easily put off by the weather.

Today it was/is dry but cold. The cold definitely rules out any sort of lying or kneeling on the ground for example to remove the wheel arch cover to get at the awful EVAP system plumbing, activated charcoal cannister, and its dodgy solenoid valve mounted behind the headlight and behind the wheel arch cover.

The fuel rail/injectors on the detached air intake manifold...I could do that upright and take a photo of the result. They look like they have lived a life, but the O-rings look reasonably sprightly for their age, but a replacement item of course for re-assembly.

Neil