Peugeot Boxer 2.2hdi euro5 2015 - no crank/no start

[R0bc]

Hey

I have acquired a boxer 2.2hdi euro 5 on a 2015 plate.

Previous owner had had the engine changed and then the head replaced and timing belt changed.

Originally he said that it started up fine but over a few months got worse to the point it would only start with a squirt of 'easy start'.

Then it wouldn't even do this.

Van has sat for about 2 years and now in my possession.

On first glance I have manually checked for broken fuses in the cabin compartment and in the engine fuse box.

Tested the battery with a digital meter and had a reading of 12.34v but would drop to 9.6v on testing the key to start and also noticed the dash lights dimming.

I have replaced the battery for new.

I then discovered the starter motor wasn't connected to the engine and was wired up but left loose.

I have bench tested this with a spare battery on the floor and the motor and spindle push out and spin so I sent it off to be reconditioned.

I have since refitted this starter motor and bolted it to the engine but am having the same results.

Turn the key everything looks ok turn it to start and nothing just silence.

I have scanned the van with multi ECU scanner and there is no abs codes.

The ECU is sid208 so ive scanned this with diagbox and that is error free

I've checked the BCM with diagbox and the only code is for an air temperature sensor short to +ve.

I've removed the.engine fuse box and ECU and there is no sigh of any cable damage or any water ingress.

I have also checked the dash for any immobilised padlock icons but none are present when ignition on.

The key does feel a bit clunky to turn but doesn't seem to affect anything related to starting.

I have found a broken wire in.the cabin fuse box are from the main multi plug on the left that's hidden under a metal bracket the wire colour was red/green pictured below

https://photos.app.goo.gl/urgDKu454MAahP8L6

I have re soldered this.

When in the engine fuse box around the ECU area I have noticed a connector block connected but one end seems to have no wires I have included a photo below.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uLSzrM75K6xdavCB7

Any ideas what this plug is for?

And further ideas how I can get back to cranking and hopefully starting?

All help appreciated greatly.

[mickthemaverick]

As you have proved the starter motor is good have you tested for 12V across it when the key is turned? Are the engine and gearbox earth straps connected properly? If that is all OK then you are looking at a solenoid/immobiliser problem I'd suggest

[R0bc]

As you have proved the starter motor is good have you tested for 12V across it when the key is turned? Are the engine and gearbox earth straps connected properly? If that is all OK then you are looking at a solenoid/immobiliser problem I'd suggest

Thanks for the reply Mick.

I have used the multimeter to test a few general locations from positive to ground these being mainly around the battery online fuses both sides which all seem to have the same reading as the battery.

I did check over all fuses for continuity both sides whilst plugged into their sockets and also checked for battery voltage at most of the tiny pin terminals ontop the fuses whilst their plugged in.

Nothing stood out and I seem to have voltage at every fuse apart from accessories like side lights ect but once turned on these do also get a voltage reading.

I'm not an auto electrician or a mechanic for that matter just have always worked on all my own cars and like to learn in the process.

Just to confirm the starter motor has;
the main battery connector
A smaller signal connector
And then a wire from solenoid to starter casing.

If I check voltage at the main battery connector against a clean bolt on the engine block I should get battery voltage?

Am I then testing the signal connector for the cranking voltage? Or the starter to solenoid connector/strap?

Am I best to ground to the engine? Or the actual starter motor casing?

I was thinking myself it might be grounding wires as the battery in the cabin has an earth strap that connects to the cabin floor and this was slightly green on the ends I did wire wheel it but didn't seem to make a difference. so I should imagine under the vans earth straps are probably alot worse.

Picture below of the condition on the earth strap in the cabin.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/UHzowkf8PymeJmXDA

I plan to change this battery strap and possibly add a few more under the van is there a recommended size as my local Halfords only stock 9"/18'/24" and 36" negative insulated battery leads and only 9/18/24 braided earth cables?

Would the insulated longer 36" negative battery lead be suitable if I coiled it up if he is to long? As I'm unsure on the size needed to reach from gearbox to chassis or from starter to chassis should I also do engine block to chassis?

Thanks for the reply really appreciated.

[mickthemaverick]

That earth strap definitely looks like it may be higher resistance than it should. In general you don't want earth straps any longer than necessary to bridge the gap required. The longer it is the more likely you are to get a volt drop across it.

As for testing, clip the negative of your multimeter on 20V DC range onto the negative of the battery itself to take the earth straps out of the equation to start with. Then check for 12V on the solenoid coil with the key turned to start. If OK check the starter motor from solenoid terminal for 12V with the key turned to start. If that is OK then you would appear to have an earthing problem. In which case connect the positive lead of the meter to the positive terminal and check for the earth on the engine, gearbox and starter motor casing. They should all show 12V indicating good earths.

Assuming you don't get 12V +ve at the starter motor then you will need to work back towards the battery via the solenoid and maybe a starter relay, immobiliser relay etc to see how far the 12V does get. Unfortunately I don't have access to the wiring diagram for your van but someone on here will and hopefully be able to help out further. Good luck

[R0bc]

That earth strap definitely looks like it may be higher resistance than it should. In general you don't want earth straps any longer than necessary to bridge the gap required. The longer it is the more likely you are to get a volt drop across it.

As for testing, clip the negative of your multimeter on 20V DC range onto the negative of the battery itself to take the earth straps out of the equation to start with. Then check for 12V on the solenoid coil with the key turned to start. If OK check the starter motor from solenoid terminal for 12V with the key turned to start. If that is OK then you would appear to have an earthing problem. In which case connect the positive lead of the meter to the positive terminal and check for the earth on the engine, gearbox and starter motor casing. They should all show 12V indicating good earths.

Assuming you don't get 12V +ve at the starter motor then you will need to work back towards the battery via the solenoid and maybe a starter relay, immobiliser relay etc to see how far the 12V does get. Unfortunately I don't have access to the wiring diagram for your van but someone on here will and hopefully be able to help out further. Good luck

Excellent I will try this tomorrow and report back.

I'll also pop to Halfords in the morning and grab a few different size earth straps and aim for the shortest possible to eliminate this.

Just to confirm key turned to start as in just the ignition on position 1? Or do you mean whilst trying to turn it so the engine would start/crank? (I might need to borrow a friend if the latter as I tend to be working alone the majority of time)

I have checked online for fuse diagrams and what not but I have struggled to find the engine and passenger fuse box relay diagrams so if someone does have these that would be extremely helpful!

Or perhaps just know which one is responsible for the starter, fuel and immobiliser/ecu.

I'm able to connect to the ECU and the padlock key simple lights up and then disappears when entering the key and engaging position 1 and doesn't light up or anything when trying to turn the engine over.

And I've not got any ECU codes via diagbox to suggest any immobilizer or ECU issues so fingers crossed there!

Thanks again Mick much appreciated

[mickthemaverick]

Yes I do mean turning to start position to crank over. If you can't get a helper you can clip the leads to the appropriate places and place the meter where you can see it from the driver's seat, then get in and turn the key while watching the meter. A lot of in and out as you work through the tests but at least you can do it single handed.

[R0bc]

Yes I do mean turning to start position to crank over. If you can't get a helper you can clip the leads to the appropriate places and place the meter where you can see it from the driver's seat, then get in and turn the key while watching the meter. A lot of in and out as you work through the tests but at least you can do it single handed.

My Meter leads are pretty short, would I be able to use an extra long heavy duty jump lead clipped in the locations mentions and brought to the van cabin and then meter connected to negative on battery and use the jump lead as the positive?

And the same for ground jumper lead connected to engine/gearbox/starter casing and then test off the positive battery terminal using negative to jumper lead?

This would work in my head but I dunno if the leads would interfere with readings.....

[mickthemaverick]

Yes that will be a way of doing it. Just check the resistance of each lead first, they should be less than 0.3 ohms and will not then affect the readings

[R0bc]

Yes that will be a way of doing it. Just check the resistance of each lead first, they should be less than 0.3 ohms and will not then affect the readings

Sorry for the delay, I have checked the jump leads and measures 0.1ohms.

Used the jump lead from starter main 12v connector and got 12.59v (this is also the battery voltage between main battery terminals)

Used the jump lead to connect to starter signal post and tested and got 12.01v.

I then tested the starter solenoid cable and got 12.11v

I skipped the earth tests and went straight to wiring up 3 new earth leads:

1 from starter motor stud to passenger wing
1 from engine block to from chassis
1 from negative battery to cabin floor.

Upon trying to start she cranked but didn't start and continued to crank when key disengaged.

I quickly removed negative post and checked starter motor cables and noticed signal was slightly touching so wiggled it around.

Tested again the same thing so removed negative battery cable and checked starter wiring again.

Not sure what it was but on further tests the key began to act normal and would stop cranking as the key was turned off.

As I had removed all codes using diagbox before getting any crank I originally only had fault codes in the bcm;
B1029 exterior air temperature information fault.

Having now got cranking working although without it starting I went straight to diagbox to see if any new codes had displayed.and first seen;
BCM;
B1029
B1008 fault RH indication illumination
B1007 left hand direction indicator illumination fault

ECU;
P0615 93 starter motor relay circuit
P0560 16 Engine management ECU supply voltage
P0524 21 oil pressure.

I figured these might be because the vans be sat awhile and having had a new battery ect.

So I removed all faults leaving me with just B1029 within the BCM (temp sensor fault)

Tried to start the van again and key off starter stops so I repeated this a couple of times and scanned.for.fsults again.

BCM;
B1029

ECU;
P0016 62 camshaft/crankshaft synchronization.

I cleared this and tested to crank and start again.but only cranking the van refuses to start and the only fault that keeps returning are the;

BCM temperature fault
&
ECU P0016 62 cam/crank sync.

I have done slight research (still on going) and have read this could just be a worn sensor (apparently one time use? No doubt the rebuild used the same sensors) or the sensor is reading between two teeth of the flywheel?.

And ideas Mick?

Thanks for your help in getting it cranking it clearly must of been a grounding issue, now I'm on to why it won't fire over .

Also could you check the starter motor photo below as to me it doesn't seem right with gaps around the housing but this is the same as another that was in the van and that one was apparently original so I'm unsure?

(Sorry Mick forgot to insert the link )
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LZhJ6LKGrkpwYiz66

Engraved on the starter is Ford 41512.


Also could you possibly point me to the location of both the camshaft sensor and crankshaft sensor and any Info regarding correct fitting and torque spec ect?

(Is this photo correct for cam sensor being at front and crank at rear?)

https://photos.app.goo.gl/GkLZFpd1s3TSSjrw6


Much appreciated

[mickthemaverick]

I'll have a dig tomorrow as I am tied up this evening, well done so far. No picture showing at the moment!

[R0bc]

I'll have a dig tomorrow as I am tied up this evening, well done so far. No picture showing at the moment!

Sorry, forgot to add the links they are there now .

Thanks again Mick

Much appreciated

[mickthemaverick]

Unfortunately your van is too new for my backup servicebox so I have dug around and found these:

Info on crankshaft sensor: https://www.aliexpress.com/p/wiki/artic ... r-location

General info on camshaft position sensors, not specifically for 2.2 but the diagram gives a good idea of where to look. https://mechanicalboost.com/camshaft-position-sensor/

As for the torque settings I'm afraid you'll need help from one of the members with access to the current Stellantis database to check them for you. I always use 'experience and common sense' when tightening sensors!!

I cannot comment on the starter motor but if it is the same as the original then it should be OK.

[R0bc]

Unfortunately your van is too new for my backup servicebox so I have dug around and found these:

Info on crankshaft sensor: https://www.aliexpress.com/p/wiki/artic ... r-location

General info on camshaft position sensors, not specifically for 2.2 but the diagram gives a good idea of where to look. https://mechanicalboost.com/camshaft-position-sensor/

As for the torque settings I'm afraid you'll need help from one of the members with access to the current Stellantis database to check them for you. I always use 'experience and common sense' when tightening sensors!!

I cannot comment on the starter motor but if it is the same as the original then it should be OK.

Thanks Mick.

All my research had seemed to suggest the crank sensors location was behind the engine on air filter side and out of view, it also suggests this is the correct locking pin position to lock the flywheel for timing procedures but I would need a crankshaft locking tool to undo the crank pulley bolts as the flywheel hole and tool couldn't be strong enough.....

I have an endoscope so I'll have a look properly before removing anything to make it a bit easier to confirm if it is down low or to the rear.


In regards to the error P0016 62 I have discovered that it could be one of three things;

1) Bad sensor.

2) wiring issue/ possibly a bent crank sensor bracket from the previous attempt to time the vehicle/ a gapping issue or positioned between two teeth.

3) The timing is out of alignment.


I'm just wondering as I know the cam sprockets have arrows that are supposed to align to the 12 o clock position over markings on the chain but I'll only be able to see this with timing cover removed...

Would using an endoscope and turning the crank shaft to see for the correct locking pin position help in anyway I know at the correct position this is classed as TDC which should suggest the cam sprockets being at 12 o clock and timing in full alignment.


Edit**** I have been looking into crank sensor functions and how they read as block wave form and also checked a previous thread where I think user RedSector provided schematics for a boxer 3 my question now is if I make sure I'm at TDC and then adjust to only see one flywheel tooth using the endoscope is this correct for fitting of a new crank sensor?
I've also read that the height can be adjusted via the bracket... Will this be trial and error or can someone point to the correct gapping procedure/tolerance?

I will check sensor plugs and wiring and I have read and am still looking into correct voltage and ohms values for both as diagbox error P0016-62 variable information suggests no communication.

This leads me to think it's either

1) A bad sensor
2) Not gapped correctly in height / between two teeth
3) a wiring/loom/ECU issue (I don't have any damage under the fuse box or any ECU corrosion so would place this 3rd but maybe wrong)




Cheers Mick much appreciated

[R0bc]

Ok so I have figured out that gsf and euro car parts list this as the correct crankshaft sensor and only type sold for this boxer 3.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/r4LspfPZaEDf6g3d6

I have managed to dig up this diagram that shows the location and equally the same sensor.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/B7QDhZWfSezVeWhWA

I commented on another post where the user 'wheeler' suggested that it wasn't adjustable, this now seems incorrect.

Looking at the diagram suggests two brackets one to mount the sensor and one to hold the sensor in height position the latter seems adjustable up & down.

I've ordered a new cam sensor and crankshaft sensor as they have never been changed so figured best course of action.

I plan to install it following this pdf I dug up through search posted by another user 'RedSector'

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9F3tkBhhU9LadKCt6

Two questions if anyone could answer?

1) on removal of the old sensor if I use an endoscope to look in to the mounting hole and noticed I'm between two teeth is this just a case of rotating the crankshaft to set it at a single tooth? Or should I rotate to TDC and then forward for the first tooth visible?

Edit*** I think I found my answers to the above....

1) rotate the crankshaft until you find TDC I'm going to use an endoscope to confirm this position locking pins or a 3/8 extension will also work and that's where the sensor should be fitted for correct alignment. (The missing tooth)

2) on mounting the new crankshaft sensor the guide says 'position it on one tooth not between two' I'm assuming this actually means drop it in fully but then back it off a slight touch? As I'd assume if there was contact this would just destroy the new sensor?

***Edit***
2) check your sensor if it's flat faced then just make sure the shoulders are against a non rusted housing
And at the lowest point.
Some sensors have a small plastic pip this is designed to wear off via contact with the flywheel teeth and leave the perfect gap. (Sensor purchased has this)

Gap reference should be no more than 1-1.2mm

Will update with results once I've fitted sensors. (Hopefully this helps someone else down the line)

[mickthemaverick]

It is easier for readers and safer in the long term to add your photos to your posts so that they are not lost when a third party host ceases to operate. The method can be found at: viewtopic.php?p=516529#p516529