Falcon's Bargain Basement Motoring

[NewcastleFalcon]

Patience worked without destruction...the metal security cage to the ECU is off. Many turns of the brass wheel using the hand forged precision screwdriver eventually took the cage into a position where it could be removed.

Intervention 2 Complete.


Intervention 3 bit of wire unwrapping and examination to see if any have compromised insulation due to the jiggling about of that cage!

Neil

[NewcastleFalcon]

I was asked the very direct questiion from my daughter why are you bothering to try to sort the clio out.. Its got 12 Months MOT and its surplus to family Fleet requirements, just move it on , as is, take what price for it you can, and let the next owner sort the hesitation/fuel system anomaly out!

Best I could come up with was Intellectrual Stimulation, an inherent persistence to try to solve puzzles, and a desire should the car be moved on that the new custodian receives a car in good working order..

Small wins today. requiring to solve the puzzle of the metal cage. Not obvious how it comes off even when you watch the Vid. The little brass wheel takes ages to rewind to the point where the top can come off...one hole at a time moving it less than 1/8th of a turn.,

Even when its in position and one half (The top) can be removed it leaves the lower bit in situ. The only way to get the lower half off would be to remove the ECU....4 T30 Torx head bolts, right up against the bulkhead....no way of getting any socket in place to remove all 4 bolts. Only chance would have been a T30 Torx "key" in an "L" shape. Resorted to a bit of creative metal bending to release the bottom part,

Small win

Neil

[bobins]

...........Best I could come up with was Intellectrual Stimulation, an inherent persistence to try to solve puzzles, and a desire should the car be moved on that the new custodian receives a car in good working order..


Neil

You still have pride - embrace it, it's becoming an endangered thing these days !

[CitroJim]

...........Best I could come up with was Intellectrual Stimulation, an inherent persistence to try to solve puzzles, and a desire should the car be moved on that the new custodian receives a car in good working order..


Neil

You still have pride - embrace it, it's becoming an endangered thing these days !

Yep, totally agree It's exactly how I think and behave... Or, at least I like to think I do...

[Rhothgar]

"Intellectrual Stimulation, an inherent persistence to try to solve puzzles"

BRILLIANT!

Surprised I've not ever come across this thread before and it's been going 9 years! A truly bargain basement car. 6 bottles of wine and 38k miles back then. That's insane! Well done.

[NewcastleFalcon]

"Intellectrual Stimulation, an inherent persistence to try to solve puzzles"

BRILLIANT!

Surprised I've not ever come across this thread before and it's been going 9 years! A truly bargain basement car. 6 bottles of wine and 38k miles back then. That's insane! Well done.

Its a very long read now Roger! but you must have picked up page 1 for the original six bottles of wine "deal" on the Clio. Also covers my opportunistic purchase of the BB Micra K12 for £100 which also served us very well! If the prose warbles on too much about fixing stuff the tale is interspersed with plenty of pictures!

BBMIcra on tour Spreading its Wings in Langdale. Lake District.

Neil

[NewcastleFalcon]

Had a little walk round the Middle of Lidl today and came out with a twin pack of Redex for £4.49, could have easily picked up a little Crimping tool and assorted connectors but with no immediate need resisted.

Now these injector/fuel system cleaner things probably due to ignorance I have little faith in them, but at £4.49 treat a couple of tankfulls and really a shot to nothing so I don't mind giving it a go.

Neil

[NewcastleFalcon]

I feel the top and bottom of it is a fuel supply problem.

Some internet wisdom suggests these as 11 most common causes of a car losing power Yes repetition of the famous adjective "Clogged" in a few places.

1. Poor compression....N/A when its "on" ie not temporarily hesitating and stuttering the Clio has plenty of power, revs happily throughout the range
2. Fuel Filter..restricting flow to the fuel rail/injectors .quite possible and an easy change.
3. Air Filter Clogged (N/A) easy change but N/A ifor the Clio
4. Catalytic Converter Clogged possible but Clio does have a new CAT
5. Camshaft Position Sensor
6. MAP Sensor...easy enough to change
7. O2 Sensor...Clio has a Couple of newish O2 Sensors, but with rich running and many short journeys could well be "sooted" up
8. Fuel Injectors Clogged
9. Fuel Pump...Clio has in tank fuel pump, 23 years old as per the car. Some clios have a filter in the in-tank pump, not my version.
10. Spark Plugs...haven't been changed for the last 45,000 Miles
11. Ignition coils...replaced couple of MOT's ago. Sorted a misfire problem.

A particular problem of the Clio is the Crankshaft Position Sensor which being magnetic can pick up debris from the flywheel. Usually results in a hard to start or wont start situation rather than an intermittent stuttering and hesitation. The Clio is always easy to start.

Plough through the list and may get somewhere near a fix. Likely to kick off with the easy things...starting with a fuel filter, under £10 and worth doing anyway! Could try an injector refurb/clean, kits are available of injector filter/ and sealing rings. The Clio D4f 712 engine the injectors discharge into the Inlet Manifold. Not sure how "clogging" occurs with the injectors discharging petrol under pressure, at a rapid rate per second in the course of normal operation and considerably in excess of any cleaning force exerted with an Aerosol of Injector cleaner.

No time pressure on this little puzzle solving, sunny days only!

Neil

[MattBLancs]

Morning Neil

My "gut feel" and yours align that it's a fueling issue.

Just to check - did that new MAP sensor go in (and no difference?) ?

Most of that numbered list read more likely to be "loss of power" as in reduction in max power - e.g. blocked catalyst would show itself most severely against highest gas flow = max power / high rpm.

[mickthemaverick]

Yes Matt, I'm still with the idea of an intermittant air into fuel leak somewhere in the supply line.

[NewcastleFalcon]

Morning Neil

My "gut feel" and yours align that it's a fueling issue.

Just to check - did that new MAP sensor go in (and no difference?) ?

Most of that numbered list read more likely to be "loss of power" as in reduction in max power - e.g. blocked catalyst would show itself most severely against highest gas flow = max power / high rpm.

Morning Matt, the cat (schrodinger's not the catalytic converter) remains in the box and the sensor is unfitted as yet! I think I will reserve that possibility for when others fail because I don't really think that is the problem! Might turn out that it is of course but I am hanging fire for the moment on replacement!

It isn't the full "Kangaroo petrol" (nice nostalgic phrase for a 60's/70's car problem) phenomenon of simply dirty fuel or water in the fuel but similarish!
Intervention no 3 most likely to be a new fuel filter!

Neil

[NewcastleFalcon]

Little drive out to collect this unassuming little thing

Outbound, gave the little Clio plenty of right boot, got the hesitation and stutter, threw the P0130 light, but goes vroom vroom whizz whizz for the greater part of the journey.

Inbound drove it as normal no serious hesitation or stutter shoved some more fuel in and a shot of Redex, no P0130 , ticked over nicely on arrival home...

but... as ever, on pulling up and leaving the engine running, the heady aroma of petrol. No obvious leak, take the oil filler cap off with the engine ticking over and and there is a definite aroma of petrol, and on switching off, that solenoid of the EVAP system runs on doing its dinger, clicking away good style.

Neil

[NewcastleFalcon]

With its sooty exhaust pipe, and niff of Petrol the BBClio is running too rich. But which screw do you turn to adjust the mixture?

This Internet wisdom seems logical enough:

To correct a modern fuel-injected car that is running too rich, you should first check and possibly replace faulty components like the oxygen sensor or mass airflow sensor, as these can affect the air-fuel mixture. Additionally, ensure that fuel injectors are functioning properly and not leaking, and consider having a mechanic diagnose the issue for a more accurate fix.

Well I don't think the injectors are leaking a stream of petrol down the engine block, but could well be leaking into the inlet manifold. Haven't got round to removing the inlet manifold and discovering what is to be found on its removal as it is necessary for it to be off to get a good look at the fuel rail and injectors. It does conceal the throttle body too as well as some sort of PCV "pathway" which may need a bit of clearing out.

I'll probably watch all of this can't imagine anyone else will!...just for completeness dumping it here..



Neil

[MattBLancs]

Hmm, interesting. I guess there is, as a minimum, a significant restriction in that tee-piece (as otherwise you'd have an unregulated flow between air box and inlet manifold (i.e. bypassing throttle body)

I'm surprised you've not not the MAP sensor in place
(it gets my vote for being the issue, at present!)

[NewcastleFalcon]

I'm surprised you've not got the MAP sensor in place
(it gets my vote for being the issue, at present!)

Nice if it turns out to be that Matt, but I procrastinate...might just remove the old one and give it a wipe before reinstalling it!

Neil