Falcon's Bargain Basement Motoring

[Paul-R]

...a Marina 1.8 TC engine/box/rear axle as well as a MGB Disk brake & telescopic shock conversions (all "do'able in a garage except the drive shaft (shortened)......they look like a "period" conversion style to me.

I know I'm rusty on these things but didn't the Marina use Triumph wheel centre PCDs? So you'd end up with a mismatch with MGB front hubs?

[NewcastleFalcon]

A brief return for completions sake on this thread!

Ah the old threads of mine disappear into obscurity and the dusty archives, and no-one realises they even exist!

Has bargain Basement Motoring ceased to be? The £100 Micra needed a bit of welding done for the MOT last summer, and with the red leaf resurrected, and the new Blue Leaf the main car, the Micra went to the recyclers, Bargain basement motoring is not running/maintaining insuring and taxing 3 cars!

A 72 Reg purple Renault Zoe has entered the extended fleet so my daughter's much loved 6-bottles of Wine Clio subject of much of this thread is now surplus to requirements. That didn't prevent the "duty of care" largely unnecessary process of putting it through a new MOT!

POTD MOT retest day...passed. I always liked a back up car of a bargain basement variety for the more van like activities, cement, sand, wood, bricks, washing machines, tip visits, and as a back up should the main transport go kaput, and to farm out should any of the wider family fleet suffer from such a fate. Not my decision on this one though, but at least if it moves onto a new custodian, it has a 12 month ticket as an incentive and it has depreciated all its going to, and who knows may even appreciate as it heads into classic territory!

We have certainly had our 6 bottles of wine worth of the original consideration for the purchase back in 2017, and like Trigger's Broom I'm sure in the right hands it could continue indefinitely!



Neil

[myglaren]

Nice to see you here again Neil!
Interesting post count too, not something I generally notice.

[mickthemaverick]

I echo Steve's comments entirely!! Not the same here without the Falcon's gardening but still well worth being involved. Don't suppose you could pop an auto box in the Clio Neil? I can offer 12 bottles of wine (from Tesco of course!)

[NewcastleFalcon]

I echo Steve's comments entirely!! Not the same here without the Falcon's gardening but still well worth being involved. Don't suppose you could pop an auto box in the Clio Neil? I can offer 12 bottles of wine (from Tesco of course!)

Just to spoil the symmetry of 26262 heres 26263!

I think it would be a little too agricultural for you Mick, not many creature comforts, but to be honest I enjoyed giving it the Italian tune up and a few drinks of Shell V-Power to help with the emissions bit of the MOT. Put your foot down and throw it about a bit and its very sporty!

It has always had the "water in the Footwell problem" which I have never really tried to rectify, so the carpets are out of the front and back replaced with the bare floor and rubber mats. The Foam/carpet was never going to dry out!" The solution is a bit of faffing abput with the sunroof or the scuttle drains or the windscreen seal...just never got round to it!

It has a bit of a problem I would like to sort out before it moves on, although it passed its MOT tests emissions and all.

Thats a bit hesitation and stuttering on a bit of an intermittant basis which I think is fuel system related as opposed to electrical related, although the upshot is a P0130 getting flagged up. It had a new CAT and O2 sensors upstream and downstream a couple of years ago.

The aftermarket O2 could be the top and bottom of it as it tends to run over rich with a bit of a fuel smell. No exhaust leaks were reported at the MOT although the official clamp between the CAT and the middle section is worse than useless.

My suspicion is that the injector O rings have perished and need replacing, or the injectors themselves are intermittently faulty and due replacement. the characteristic of the hesitation feels like a temporary fuel starvation followed by a clearance, and then it just revs freely and with full power.

The electrical/sensor elements of the throttle body, and the throttle pedal, still allow a smooth progression if revved from 0 to 6000 so although it could be a problem with either of these two components, I think its more on the fuel supply side of things.

I believe the pressure to the fuel rail is supplied by the pump which is in the tank, and therein may lie another source of the hesitation, then full power scenario. Garbage in the pick up, fuel filter intermittently blockedT I think the fuel pressure regulator is in the fuel rail.

Thing is, give it the heavy right foot and maintain high revs and full power is there, the stuttering/hesitation is overcome. It is by no means a permanent thing. I can run 30 miles with out any P0130, without any engine management light, and without any stuttering and it can pass the MOT Emissions test!

One of those "could be this", "could be that", "try this", "try that", but if you have any strategy to recommend I would be most grateful! Not that important that I sort it....just a niggle!

Thanks Neil

[mickthemaverick]

I wonder if you have a pinhole in a fuel line which has no effect under high flow but introduces the odd bubble at idle. I'd run a seperate fuel pipe from tank to rail and see if it improves!!

[NewcastleFalcon]

Thanks Mick, some years back it got new fuel lines fitted, and a new filter. That maybe needs changing.

It would be nice if the "hesitation" then clearing, and full power resuming was a symptom with a definite solution. All the OBD comes up with as a DTC is P0130. Pre-cat O2 sensor reporting an error condition.

I am guessing this is more likely to be a consequence rather than a cause of the hesitation episodes. The hesitation episodes smack of fuel starvation, but not constant fuel starvation as it clears, with a surge back to full power within seconds with a bit more right foot or move to a lower gear.


From the dim and distant past if I remember right, one of my Xantia's stuttering and hesitation was cured by a blast of compressed air down the fuel return line! A similar hesitation on one of the Sierras was sorted with a new throttle cable!.

The Clio is fly by wire with an accelerator pedal position sensor and throttle body with electrically activated Butterfly valve. Any sort of malfunction in either end of the "wire" and hey presto hesitation, flat spots etc!

Neil

[MattBLancs]

A few thoughts!

My suspicion is that the injector O rings have perished and need replacing,

O-rings forming the seal between injector and inlet manifold?
That'd give a vacuum leak surely?
Suggest the "spray something flammable in the engine bay and see if revs pick up" test to find vacuum leak.

or the injectors themselves are intermittently faulty and due replacement. the characteristic of the hesitation feels like a temporary fuel starvation followed by a clearance, and then it just revs freely and with full power.

I'm not aware of injectors going "intermittent" more just open circuit dead, or fine. Could have muck in them too, but again not intermittent.

The electrical/sensor elements of the throttle body, and the throttle pedal, still allow a smooth progression if revved from 0 to 6000 so although it could be a problem with either of these two components, I think its more on the fuel supply side of things.

Hmmm, sounds the sort of thing that could get gummy and play up. Whip off for quick clean up?

I wonder if you have a pinhole in a fuel line which has no effect under high flow but introduces the odd bubble at idle. I'd run a seperate fuel pipe from tank to rail and see if it improves!!

Looking at Mick's hypothesis, however given:

I believe the pressure to the fuel rail is supplied by the pump which is in the tank,

That'd have the pipe from (in tank pump) to fuel rail as positive pressure, hence pinhole would give fuel leak not draw air in?

and therein may lie another source of the hesitation, then full power scenario. Garbage in the pick up, fuel filter intermittently blockedT I think the fuel pressure regulator is in the fuel rail.

Can't help quote the silly joke

Spoiler: show

crap in the carburettor!
Ok if it'll help, but how often do I need to do that!?!

Again, fuel filter blocked I'd not expect to be intermittent.

Thing is, give it the heavy right foot and maintain high revs and full power is there, the stuttering/hesitation is overcome. It is by no means a permanent thing. I can run 30 miles with out any P0130, without any engine management light, and without any stuttering and it can pass the MOT Emissions test!

Ah ha!
There is the solution, take your Clio and...

Spoiler: show

... Drive it like a 17 year old!

One of those "could be this", "could be that", "try this", "try that", but if you have any strategy to recommend I would be most grateful! Not that important that I sort it....just a niggle!

Thanks Neil

Ah, very much one of those issues. Niggly and worse still, inconsistent!

Good luck with hunting it down.

Fair well mighty Micra, it served you well

[NewcastleFalcon]

A few thoughts!
Ah, very much one of those issues. Niggly and worse still, inconsistent!
Good luck with hunting it down.

Fair well mighty Micra, it served you well

Thanks for your post Matt. Hesitation on acceleration surely has happened at some time or other for most car drivers. I hope I have described the experience with the Clio well enough to help nail the cause down. Don't think the Clio had seen 5,000 rpm in its lifetime before my pre-MOT Italian tune-up activity. Really makes a decent sporty noise and a fun drive.

In simple terms the problem is...from time to time, on acceleration will hesitate and stutter, put the right foot down and the hesitation and stutter is over come and it whizzes on back at full power. The hesitation and stutter throws up the EML and the code recorded is E130.

Neil

[bobins]

Have you had a look at the MAF (MAP?) sensor, Neil, as that could cause those symptoms ? Does it need a good clean with an appropriate cleaner, or just a replacement ?

[NewcastleFalcon]

Hi Bobins,

Have you had a look at the MAF (MAP?) sensor, Neil, as that could cause those symptoms ? Does it need a good clean with an appropriate cleaner, or just a replacement ?

It has a MAP sensor which sits on the top of the plastic Inlet Manifold and pokes into its appropriate hole. Not convinced it is securely mounted by design for such an important sensor. Indeed I even had a bit of masking tape clagging it down.

This is it, not that expensive and maybe on the "try this" list.

Neil

[bobins]

Hi Neil !

Can you get live readings with your OBD tool ? .......presuming you've got an OBD tool to extract the fault code in the first place
See if the MAP sensor is making sense whilst accelerating.

[NewcastleFalcon]

Hi Neil !

Can you get live readings with your OBD tool ? .......presuming you've got an OBD tool to extract the fault code in the first place
See if the MAP sensor is making sense whilst accelerating.

No live data unfortunately, just a simple code reader/code eraser.

Neil

[bobins]

If.... and it's a big IF you've got a reasonable Android phone, and IF you can get a cheap bluetooth OBD reader (eBay, sub-£20), then you might pair them up along with someting like Torque Lite https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... e&hl=en_GB and that might get you some analytical detail to help hunt down the problem.

[NewcastleFalcon]

Thanks for the info Bobins. Not entirely strangers to the dongle and phone app, used Leaf Spy Pro with the communal android Phone and an i-Car OBD dongle to good effect resurrecting the Red Leaf. I will keep your suggestions in mind should my usual approach fail. I look at what practical interventions can be made some of which I may not even attempt and move the car on for the next custodian to sort out.

1. Changing Spark Plugs 2. New MAP Sensor 3. New O2 Sensor. 4. Change fuel filter/air filter 5. Inspect clean and refurb existing injectors. 6 Inspect and clean the inlet manifold.

Unlikely that I will attempt a full clean up of the fuel delivery system from tank to injector. There is probably a reasonable chance that the fuel tank may need a clean out, and its internal pump inspected and cleaned. There may be a correlation between running low fuel levels and the hesitation and stuttering.

Neil