1.6HDi not starting...

[Auldalliance]

Hi
I've got some trouble with my '08 308 1.6HDi. The other day it refused to start- it just turned over sluggishly, classic dead battery sort of behaviour. I had left a trailer plugged in overnight but there were no lights on. I wondered if maybe that had upset it.
Anyway, I'm in troubleshooting mode now and have deduced the following:
- the Pug's battery will happily start my Astra, and the Astra battery will not start the Pug. So it's not the battery.
- I'm getting a good voltage between the battery + and the engine, so I think I can rule out a bad earth strap.
- The lights don't dim at all when I try starting, so I don't think it's a general vehicle-wide power loss.
- There's a relay that clicks once, it's somewhere around the glovebox (LHS of the vehicle)

Where should I be looking next? It's a bit odd that it was trying to start, and now just clicks. I did try jumping it from the other car and it was able to give a feeble half turn on the starter.

Any advice very gratefully received!

[mickthemaverick]

I would go through all your connectors and contacts in and around the BMS to make sure you haven't had damp/corrosion in there. Check all your earth strap connections to gearbox and engine and then do a BSi reset and see how it goes.: viewtopic.php?p=601679#p601679

[RichardW]

Sounds to me like the starter has had it. Not exactly the easiest to get at....but you need to check you are getting 12v on the signal wire, and then you could check whether it will spin if you bridge the terminals. Good luck getting the top bolt out if you have to change it!

[Auldalliance]

Thanks, looks like it's time to dig down to the starter!

I watched a video (Peter's Garage) where he drained the transmission and removed the half shaft in order to get access. I'm really hoping that's not actually necessary!!?

[MattBLancs]

I changed the starter on my wife's 206 with the 1.6 DV6 HDI, I did not remove the driveshaft. Access is pretty horrible, it's a "look OR do (not both)" task unfortunately.

From memory I decided the driveshaft removal wouldn't gain me much, hence leaving in place. Access is from below, though I think you can see upper starter mounting bolt if you remove a few items above.

Removal not so bad (as starter hangs on the bolts until the last one is out) but putting it back and getting that first bolt in place, one handed (not room to get both hands at it) not much fun.
Make sure you've a nice big bag of choice swear words ready!

Quarter inch drive ratchet essential.
I can't recall if the three mounting bolts are Allen head (think so, but it's a few years back) but as my Allen sockets are 3/8" drive, I used an adapter (known to me as an Embiggener ) so I could keep using the 1/4" ratchet.

Spoiler: show

[Auldalliance]

Well first task will be to get in there with the multimeter, maybe it's just a bad connection somewhere.
I'd have assumed that a bad starter would be evident with horrific grinding noises.
I could also try whacking it with a hammer if it's the solenoid, and/or shorting out the contacts. It works on tractor engines...

[MattBLancs]

Yes, a check that +12v is making it to starter connection is good idea.

Solenoid can stick = hammer might temporarily free it,
Last start I changed, the solenoid had gone open circuit, so no amount of tapping with a hammer would help that

Grinding noises if not engaging with flywheel's ring gear teeth.

Turning slowly could be high resistance / stiff motor itself I guess. Not easy to check for that (of solenoid resistance check) untill it's out on the deck really.

The DV6 starter I changed had a cleaned up second hand one put in.
The failing one was sticky solenoid - sometimes it'd engage, sometimes not. Gummed up inside.

[RichardW]

Whereabouts in Scotland are you? I've got a DV6 starter on the shelf - never managed to fit it to my 07 307 (that top bolt....!). If you're central belt and you need it, let me know,

[PaulC5]

On an awkward job it is sometimes worth paying to have it done. On a ramp jobs can be a lot quicker so labour costs might not be great but you have to get the car to a garage - AA/RAC/Green Flag home cover ?

Could also be worn carbon brushes stopping the starter working.

[Auldalliance]

Whereabouts in Scotland are you? I've got a DV6 starter on the shelf - never managed to fit it to my 07 307 (that top bolt....!). If you're central belt and you need it, let me know,

Thanks for the offer! I'm up on Skye so a wee bit far away.
I'm actually heading down towards Glasgow next week though.

[Auldalliance]

A little bit of progress today, dodging rain showers.
Battery and tray are out. There's a lot of water leaking in to that area, running down the windscreen. So I won't be surprised if I find some corroded wiring.
I still haven't managed to catch a glimpse of the starter. From the videos I've watched it should be somewhere underneath the battery?

[MattBLancs]

A little bit of progress today, dodging rain showers.
Battery and tray are out. There's a lot of water leaking in to that area, running down the windscreen. So I won't be surprised if I find some corroded wiring.
I still haven't managed to catch a glimpse of the starter. From the videos I've watched it should be somewhere underneath the battery?

Go from underneath (undertray off, if fitted and) it'll be roughly central, behind the sump. Find the long driveshaft and follow it towards the gearbox, then it's vertically above the end of the shaft

Picture courtesy of Haynes:

Red: approx starter location.
Green: long driveshaft

[MattBLancs]

In fact, here's Haynes lies about the process of getting the motor out.

[Auldalliance]

Starter motor located... from underneath. Not an easy place to work, is it!
I must be missing something because I don't see any reason to remove the battery and tray, as Haynes and various videos have said to do (I've also done this and there's no way I can get anywhere near the starter from the top).

In terms of diagnostics, I was able to measure a decent voltage at the solenoid while my wife turned the key.
Next I thought about bridging the terminals, as I've done before on boats and farm equipment, but I wasn't able to get the angle and space to get a screwdriver in there. Instead I clipped on my jump leads and then touched them together while my wife turned the key. That did provoke a bit of a reaction from the starter but nowhere near enough to fully turn over. The jump leads are 8m long in total and are very poor quality, so there's probably far too much voltage drop for that to work.

I've jacked the car up a bit higher to make work easier, and I'll see if I can remove the starter next. Wish me luck...

[mickthemaverick]

Good luck!