Citroen C2 1.4HDI - Clutch Change

[wurlycorner]

Been a while… did this get resolved ok and did the replacement clutch fit ok?

[Gregca]

You must have ESP! Today, 09/11, Sunday afternoon I re-attached most of the remaining parts I had removed. I turned the ignition key and the engine fired up immediately. This was something that I was not expecting. Battery discharged, wiring wrong, many other possibilities for failure. I took it on a little test drive still expecting the worst and we got there and back with a breakdown. This has been a stupidly long time to carry out a clutch renewal. I have carried out a clutch change on an MGB GT in hours not months. So I do not feel elated, I am just pleased with my self that i did not call it a day and admit defeat. I ended up doing a lot more than a basic clutch renewal and do wonder what the local garage would have done and what they would have charged me. I know it would have been quicker for sure. If I had not had an alternative car to use I think that I would have also been quicker too but I was not in a rush. I still have couple of things to do but the clutch works and the car drives.
Here is a list of what I ended up doing:

Clutch including release bearing.
Clutch fork.
Clutch fluid pipe from master to slave.
Clutch slave cylinder assembly.
Brake/Clutch fluid drained and replaced.
Gearbox oil seals - x 3.
Rear crankshaft oil seal.
Flywheel cleaning and resurfacing.
New flywheel fixing bolts.
Drive shafts - rejuvenation, de-rusting and painted, boots lots of silicone spray.
Suspension joints replaced.
Track rods replaced. replaced.
Wheel discs replaced.
Brake pads
Brake calipers - de-rusted and painted, new seals and boots.
Gearbox and Engine oil replaced.
Engine oil filter.
Air filter.
Exhaust removed, cleaned and painted - in very good condition after 8 years
Exhaust rubber mounts replaced.
All engine, gearbox and front suspension rubber mounts liberally sprayed with silicone.

I am sure I might have missed something but these are the main items I attended to.

I now have re-bleed the clutch and the brakes. Refit the wheel arch covers and bottom tray and Bob' your uncle.

Does anyone want to buy a half decent C2 1.4HDI?

[wurlycorner]

Brilliant - well done and I’m glad you got it sorted!
There’s always plenty of those ‘while you’re in there’ jobs when you’re doing the work yourself

[Gregca]

Forgot the new stainless hub nuts. One niggle I have a large bolt left over and cannot figure where it came from (yet)

[Gregca]

I have a starting problem now!

Does anyone have a wiring diagram?
Just the starter circuit would be very useful.
At the moment I am shooting in the dark.

I turn the ignition key and hear a relay clicking under the dashboard and and the battery light flashes on the instrument panel. Apart from this silence.

No clicking solenoid.
Battery fully charged.
Terminals not corroded.

If I had a wiring diagram I could trace it through and hopefully eliminate the obvious.

I do not even know which is the 'Starter' fuse.
What does this do?
Would the relay click if this was blown?

I could go out and buy a new starter motor and do the swap....
I would hate to do this and still have a problem!

I am annoyed because I could have changed the starter whilst I had the gearbox off for the clutch renewal

[mickthemaverick]

One wonders if the large bolt you had left over was for an earth strap to the flywheel or similar?

[Gregca]

It is a fairly large bolt. I will supply a photo and dimensions if necessary. From all my years it is not an earth strap bolt. I am not sure what you mean by 'earth strap to flywheel'.
The only earth strap I came across is the one on the battery earth lead connector which splits and a connection goes directly to the top side of the gearbox which I re-attached with a nice new bolt.

[mickthemaverick]

Sorry my bad choice of words, I meant the bell housing or flywheel casing in general terms. Sometimes they put an under engine earth strap as well as the upper gearbox strap to give a more direct path for the starter motor to use.

[Gregca]

This is the bolt in question. Take note of the rusted part, must have been quite a bit exposed.
Size M10 x 71mm. I thought it might have been one of the pinch bolts for the suspension swivel joints. I snapped one on removal and cannot locate the other (yet). Although I guess if it had been one of these it would have had rust in the exposed middle section so I think it mist have come from elsewhere. The Engine/Bell housing bolts are less than M10, I will check their sizes.

[ozvtr]

Here you go.
Quick note, however. The relay in the BSM that operates the starter solenoid (and consequently the starter) is run by the "security system" in the BSI. The BSI has to recognize the key (transponder) before it will tell the BSM to start the engine.
My best guess with the current evidence is; the BSI is not recognizing the key (for one reason or another).
You could also try fuse F8 in the BSM. It should have power on it all the time.
You can also try removing the yellow connector from the BSM and shorting pin 2 to the battery positive terminal with the ignition on. Warning: be sure gearbox is in neutral!
The ECO (battery) light will not go out until the engine runs. It's irrelevant, so forget about it.
I don't know, stupid question but are you using the right key? Is the key intact?
Could be something else but there is not much to go on.

[Gregca]

Thank you this will help - Pin 2 - Is this the Red or Black lead on the plug connector? I do not want to put power on something I shouldn't. I am assuming you mean the leads on the removed plug and not the connector pins on the unit.
Unfortunately there are no wire colours indicated on the diagram.
The circuit diagram is a little blurred but I am trying to follow it through.

[ozvtr]

Thank you this will help - Pin 2 - Is this the Red or Black lead on the plug connector?

Unfortunately there are no wire colours indicated on the diagram.

PSA (Citroen) don't use colours to identify the wires. The colours of the wires can change. The wire will be marked "100". If that doesn't help, use a mirror to see what colour the wire is on the starter solenoid. Also, the pin numbers are marked on the contact side (not the wire side) of the plug.

I am assuming you mean the leads on the removed plug and not the connector pins on the unit.

Yes.

This video shows a Mk1 Pluriel sensodrive. The connector is a 2 pin BLACK connector, yours is a 5 pin yellow connector. But you can short it onto the battery post just the same.
WARNING: be sure the car is in NEUTRAL!!
Remember, this is only testing the starter and the engine ground, I don't guarantee the engine will run (Yeah! If it does). Don't forget to have the ignition on.
If the engine runs, the problem is probably in the BSM (relay most likely). If the engine does NOT turn over, probably the starter. If the engine turns over but won't run, probably the security system.

The circuit diagram is a little blurred but I am trying to follow it through.

Just tap on the image, it will enlarge.

[Gregca]

BSM - What does this stand for? Can you supply a photo (please)?

[Paul-R]

From the internet and I can't improve upon it except to say it also applies to Citroen and DS vehicles as well. Maybe other marques in the Stellantis group now.

Meaning of BSM in Relation to PSA

BSM Definition
BSM stands for "Boîtier de Servitude Moteur," which translates to "Engine Slave Box" in English. It is commonly referred to as the engine fuse box in Peugeot vehicles.

Function of BSM
The BSM is responsible for managing electrical connections and fuses related to the engine and its accessories. It typically includes:

Fuses for various engine components
Relays for controlling electrical loads
Protection for circuits against overloads

Relation to PSA
In the context of PSA (Peugeot Société Anonyme), BSM is a specific term used for the engine fuse box, which is crucial for the operation of various engine functions. It is distinct from other control units like the BSI (Boîtier de Servitude Intelligent), which manages interior systems.

Summary
The BSM is an essential component in Peugeot vehicles, ensuring that the engine's electrical systems function correctly. It plays a vital role in the overall electrical architecture of the vehicle.

[mickthemaverick]

BSM's vary slightly from model to model and year to year but this is an example from a C2:

BFTW