C5 X7 2.2 DW12C Impossible to get the timing belt in place!?

[Beorn]

I've been struggling about 2 hours now with the timing belt from he11 on this car. It's my first Citröen, leaning towards my last as well!
No, frustration and jokes aside (I really like the car!), it seems impossible to get the new timing belt on.
I have changed timing belts on other brands before (Volvo, Fiat...) but those wasn't near as complicated as on this engine I have followed the original manual to the point with all the pegs, pins, rings and whatnot and the water pump, tensioner and roller are all replaced, but when it comes to the new belt, I can't get it on. It seems too short. Not much, only a tiny little bit, it's "almost" there.
I've compared it with the old one - specs, teeth, length - they are indeed identical (it wasn't too great of a hassle to get the old one off either). Also the tensioner and roller are identical with the old ones.
The belt is also in place ("tooth wise") around the camshaft pulley and water pump, so it is as "long" as I can get it.
I followed the instructions and started on the camshaft pulley and locked the belt in place on it and then moved my way downwards - tensioner (loosened), roller, water pump... but can't get it on the crankshaft pulley.

Another thing is that if I take the belt off of the water pump and put it on the crankshaft pulley first (so it'll fit with the teeth), the belt is (in my opinion) to loose between the camshaft and the crankshaft. As far as I know the belt should be tight on that "side" and the tensioner will do the work on the other. When trying to put the belt one cog further (pulling it harder to get rid of the slack), the belt would need to be a 1/2 to 1 mm longer to fit on the crankshaft pulley, if you know what I mean.
Unfortunately I didn't write any marks on the old belt and pulleys as I read somewhere "that's not necessary when following the original manual".

Any tips and tricks would be very helpful and greatly appreciated!

/Björn

[mickthemaverick]

One trick I have used in the past is to immerse the belt in hot water before fitting, it just gives that tad of expansion which may allow you to fit it.

[Beorn]

Thank you, Mick, I'll try it immediately!

[Beorn]

Unfortunately Mick's suggestion didn't work out for me. I even went on it carefully with the heat gun.
Again I compared, and confirmed, that the new belt is truly identical to the old one. I also tried to put the old one back and the crazy thing is, it fits like a glove...
May be that the teeth on the old one are a fraction of a micron "thinner", from wear I suppose. But nevertheless, it fits, and the new does not.

The "original" belt was "Gates" and the new I want to put in is "SKF".
I don't have any experience from SKF belts, in the past I've only used "ContiTech" belts as replacements.
I'm leaning towards trying another brand, I refuse to put the old belt back! Even though it's actually in very good condition (as the old water pump, tensioner and roller).
Does anyone have had the same issue with timing belts?

[moizeau]

I'd put the old belt back on, tension it etc. as if you were going to use it then mark the belt and pulleys, transfer the marks to the new belt and that will tell you if you need to 'jiggle' the cam pulley to get it correct.

[Beorn]

I'd put the old belt back on, tension it etc. as if you were going to use it then mark the belt and pulleys, transfer the marks to the new belt and that will tell you if you need to 'jiggle' the cam pulley to get it correct.

Thanks for the tip, Pete.
Yes, it seems I will have to bite the bullet and do it from the beginning.

[Gibbo2286]

The first thing I'd ask is "Are you routing it correctly?" It won't go on if not and they can be quite confusing.

[Beorn]

The first thing I'd ask is "Are you routing it correctly?" It won't go on if not and they can be quite confusing.

Yes, I believe so, I put it as it was placed from the beginning.

[RichardW]

I've struggled with getting DV6 belts on - fit the belt first then put the tensioner on afterwards.

[Beorn]

I've struggled with getting DV6 belts on - fit the belt first then put the tensioner on afterwards.

Thanks for your input,

yes, I've tried that too, without success as the "back plate" of the tensioner is too large so I can't get it in behind the belt and on to the stud bolt. Something is always in the way - the tight belt, the metal casting behind, the stud bolt... - it doesn't matter how I try to position it.

Although, now I will do as Pete suggested and do it from the beginning, with the old belt attached, but then another issue popped up;
I've fitted the old belt, no problems there, but when following the instructions to Move the index "d" to the outside of the plate (at "c"),
turning the roller tensioner in the direction of the arrow "b", using a hexagonal banjo wrench (at "e"),

I don't even get the index/pointer pass the "notch" because then tensioner "turns over" and slackens again.

As tight as I can get it before "turning point"

With that said, the position of the pointer before I removed the old belt in the first place, wasn't even close to the correct position (if I understand correctly) which should be in the center of the notch.

Original position

I have to admit, now I'm more than confused.

[moizeau]

The important bit is the cam to crank on the tight side. I don't know this engine. Has is got the 'variable' crank pulley that needs setting centrally on it's key?
The old belt won't tension correctly because it's stretched slightly. I had a nightmare doing my C4 135 petrol coupé because the locking bolt for the tensioner was too loose and threw the tensioner out.
All the best

[Beorn]

The important bit is the cam to crank on the tight side. I don't know this engine. Has is got the 'variable' crank pulley that needs setting centrally on it's key?
The old belt won't tension correctly because it's stretched slightly. I had a nightmare doing my C4 135 petrol coupé because the locking bolt for the tensioner was too loose and threw the tensioner out.
All the best

Yes, Pete, that's correct, it has the pulley with a bit of "wiggle room".

Crank pulley before demounting

Then I concentrate on getting the key centered at the crank pulley when I can peg the camshaft pulley and the flywheel, after turning the crankshaft manually a couple of turns (10 I believe?), and adjusting the tensioner, if I understand you correctly? That the tensioner pointer will end up "somewhere" is then secondary, as long as the crank pulley key is centered?
I mean, the tensioner pointer was already way "off" from the beginning and the crank pulley key was dead center, AND the car worked perfectly fine then too.