Citroen C2 1.4HDI - Clutch Change

[Gregca]

Latest update - So today I just about joined the gearbox to the engine. I did not fully tighten just in case the issue was something nasty inside. I tried to use my fibre optic camera to probe through the release lever hole without success. I did turn the front pulley and saw the output shaft splines rotating with no nasty grinding. this meant that the shaft, clutch and gearbox were all working. No such luck with the release bearing lever which was able to move fully backwards and forwards. So then I parted the enging and gearboc to get a better look at the the release bearing and lever. The bearing had not fallen off the input shaft and the lever was also still attached and moving the bearing backwards and forwards on the tube. Next I moved the gearbox full from the engine and removed the new release bearing from the shaft.

I have now compared the old and new release bearings. They look very similar as far as overall dimensions are concerned. Height diameter etc. I have noticed that the contact faces are slightly different but assume that this should not be an issue.

So currently the gearbox is now a few inches from the engine balanced on wooden blocks. I have not got the heart to remove the clutch (yet).

My car is from 2009 so rightly or wrongly i have always assumed that I have the 68 HP model.

For reference for those who may or may not know. There are two versions of the C2 1.4 HDI.
68 HP (11/2003 to 04/2005
69 HP (2004 to 2010)

There does appear to be some difference in the clutch kits on offer for the two models depending where you look.

I purchased a LUK clutch kit and have noticed that LUK does not offer a clutch kit for the 69 HP model - strange.

I have also gone on some parts sites and they actually offer the same clutches for both models. - strange.

I am just trying to figure out where my problem actually lies. I intend to check the old clutch and see if the reference numbers on it help.

I also think I might try to measure the height of the pressure plate housing in situ and check it against the old one.

I attach some photos for interest and discussion..........

Any ideas????

[Steve Walsh]

All looks good, but I can't see on the photo's if the release bearing is slotted onto the lever

[mickthemaverick]

Click on the picture to enlarge:

Modded pic

I believe the edge of the lever as arrowed in Red should be in the groove in the bearing as arrowed in yellow, not behind it as it appears to be in the purple circle?

[Steve Walsh]

Well spotted Mick

[Gregca]

I am not sure what you are indicating. I have produced additional pictures today to clarify this point.
However this is not the issue! I think......
WRONG CLUTCH! - Not my fault!!
Full details to follow, currently a bit pi..ed off to be honest.

[wurlycorner]

Click on the picture to enlarge:



I believe the edge of the lever as arrowed in Red should be in the groove in the bearing as arrowed in yellow, not behind it as it appears to be in the purple circle?

I think the setup as installed looks correct (otherwise the lever would be pushing on the back of the front race, rather than the back of the rear/inner race). Also if the current install was wrong, it would cause the release bearing to over-travel forward towards the clutch, rather than not travel far enough?

Anyway, sounds like the cause has been found... Good news if so, but unfortunate as to what the cause has been found to be.
Look forward to the updated pics explaining!

[Gregca]

Right, where to begin. First the new release bearing does/did look slightly different to the old. I wrongly assumed this was mere advances and possibly a different manufacturer. However I was led astray when the new fitted perfectly on the lever and on the new tube. So until the big problem of 'no engagement' I was not overly concerned. Today I planned on trying to measure how much the pressure plate leaves sat above the body of the pressure plate assembly compared to the old one. All whilst it was still attached to the flywheel. Not easy but I did notice something glaring - the leaves on the new pressure plate DO NOT protrude anywhere near the amount of the old one! Big clue why the release bearing does not push on them!! I have made a big mistake in not comparing old with new before proceeding. Does everyone? To be honest the old clutch plate and pressure plate housing were extremely nasty (dirty, grubby) - you have seen the old bearing. So I took them off and put them to one side for disposal once the job had been completed. Today they have been thoroughly cleaned for examination. Fortunately they also LUK so the LUK reference number on the clutch plate immediately rang alarm bells. It is different to the new one. As already stated now also having looked at the pressure plates old and new, the old has the spring leaves sticking up proud of the steel body whilst the new one has them virtually flush. Hence why the new bearing does not touch them even in its forward position. Tomorrow I will take some photos for comparison and measurement.
The reasons nothing was obvious is that both clutch plates are 200 mm diameter, both release bearings look virtually identical to the casual observer, the new clutch plate centre splines and diameter fit on the gearbox input shaft. The new clutch and pressure plate mated to and fastened to the flywheel. The engine and gearbox mated up and the engine turned the gearbox.
Just the 'little' problem of no disengagement. I will provide all the numbers and photos once I have cooled down but it appears that my car is not what it supposed to be! I am thinking that it possibly has a different gearbox. Without checking the ident it might prove tricky. The new clutch I ordered and what is listed as correct for a C2 1.4 HDI 2009 is not suitable for mine. The only lucky point now is that I can use the number on the old clutch plate - LUK 96 547 878 80 to order the correct replacement set.
Another strange thing is the fact that all the oil seals I ordered for a C2 1.4 HDI 2009 fit perfectly. Was this luck? Or part of my downfall???

[RichardW]

It's normal for the clutch fingers to sit further in on a new clutch - they move out as the clutch wears. Can you post a pic of the two clutches side by side?

[Steve Walsh]

https://vehiclelifetimesolutions.schaef ... en/catalog


Try this for some info

[RichardW]

The number off the clutch seems to correlate to one for a 1.9d. The one you have appears to be correct for your car. No idea what is going on there, maybe someone has been there before and fitted a different flywheel / clutch...

[Gregca]

Here we go again - Please see the latest pictures. I am at a loss what really is different between the two clutches. They do have subtle difference in the clutch pad shapes and the bearing. And the numbers on the clutch plates, both LUK
New - 319 0219 10
Old - 96 547 878 80

These numbers then reference different kits. The various online car parts suppliers also offer different kits???

Now the old clutch is cleaned up I have seen the bluing on the fingers which means that these and the bearing at some time got quite hot!
Not good so at least a reason to change the clutch before it failed dramatically.

I have now cleaned the new clutch components and packed them in the original box.
I am returning to the supplier and hope that the package passes inspection.

I will then order the clutch kit which corresponds with the original 'old' plate and pray it works. If I get chance I am planning on trying to communicate with a local garage mechanic to ask if they have any ideas why the lever was totally floppy when I had installed the clutch. I expect I will be told that it was my poor installation skills....

In the meantime I will still be interested what the Forum has to say. I hope you are not all bored yet.

[Gregca]

The 'new' clutch is on its way back to the supplier. I will have to pay a 'Returns' penalty and they will not be at all quick about the refund.

Looking at the two sets I cannot see a difference (apart from the numbers on the clutch plate) and if anyone cares to feed these into the magical internet they will see that they correspond to different vehicles. My old clutch does NOT correspond to my vehicle....

Besides all this and I realise this is not a technical forum I wonder if the 'new' clutch pressure plate was faulty in some way that when I tightened it against the flywheel it moved into the forward position and this is the reason that the release bearing did not engage against it and also the reason that the spring leaves appeared to look flatter than the 'old' pressure plate. Am I "clutching at straws 'leaves'" - no pun intended.

Has anyone else come up with a viable answer to this?

I am going to order a kit which corresponds to my 'old' clutch plate number but already worry that I am going to have problems because this one should have fitted and worked.

[Steve Walsh]

Some clutches are pull to release and some like yours are push, the wrong one could be from a vehicle with a pull clutch

[Gregca]

Hello Steve can you explain this in more detail if possible. Do you have any examples so I could look into this? I half suspect something like this but would have thought that the bearing would have touched in the forward position.

[Steve Walsh]

Try this
https://www.valeoservice.com/en-com/tec ... e-clutches

Not as common as push type but plenty around, Not worked on one for years, last one was a truck