Brief Encounter II - The Sequel
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CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
- Posts: 54658
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
- x 8137
Yes, indeed it is. It will be the ES9J4S as fitted to the C5 and late 406 Coupes.
Sadly dowen (welcome to the forum by the way!), all my experience is on the early ES9J4 without variable valve timing. I'd proceed with caution on this one as alignment will be critical.
The best source of how to do this will be found in the proper Citroen C5 Workshop Manual (not Haynes).
Why do you need to replace a tappet?
Sadly dowen (welcome to the forum by the way!), all my experience is on the early ES9J4 without variable valve timing. I'd proceed with caution on this one as alignment will be critical.
The best source of how to do this will be found in the proper Citroen C5 Workshop Manual (not Haynes).
Why do you need to replace a tappet?
Jim
A bit of a Citroen AX fan...
A bit of a Citroen AX fan...
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CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
- Posts: 54658
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
- x 8137
Re: Brief Encounter II - The Sequel
This is a final instalment to this blog and something of an eulogy for what was anything but a brief encounter in the end...
Old V6, as she came to be known, was finally declared beyond economic repair by her present owner due to a myriad of small issues and one biggie: leaky engine camboxes...
As a result, the car is back with me and will donate a considerable amount of herself to my V6 Activa project..
Although I'm sad that Old V6 is finally coming to the end of this stage of its life I'm delighted to note that in the ownership of PavlosV6 it did nigh-on 30K with very little grief... It's now done nearly 206K and and almost 40K since the gearbox rebuild...
I'm happy I truly gave it a new lease of life... The car was heading for the scrap yard when I got hold of it originally, having a dead gearbox and many other issues which have been chronicled in this very blog
It seems somehow fitting it'll now form a large part of my V6 Activa project...
So long Old V6 and thanks for all the new skills you taught me
And no doubt new ones I'll learn during the course of the Activa project!!!
Old V6, as she came to be known, was finally declared beyond economic repair by her present owner due to a myriad of small issues and one biggie: leaky engine camboxes...
As a result, the car is back with me and will donate a considerable amount of herself to my V6 Activa project..
Although I'm sad that Old V6 is finally coming to the end of this stage of its life I'm delighted to note that in the ownership of PavlosV6 it did nigh-on 30K with very little grief... It's now done nearly 206K and and almost 40K since the gearbox rebuild...
I'm happy I truly gave it a new lease of life... The car was heading for the scrap yard when I got hold of it originally, having a dead gearbox and many other issues which have been chronicled in this very blog
It seems somehow fitting it'll now form a large part of my V6 Activa project...
So long Old V6 and thanks for all the new skills you taught me
And no doubt new ones I'll learn during the course of the Activa project!!!
Jim
A bit of a Citroen AX fan...
A bit of a Citroen AX fan...
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Mita11
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 31 Aug 2025, 19:51
Re: Brief Encounter II - The Sequel
Hi Jim,
Thank you all the work sharing your experience with the 4HP20 transmission. I learn a lot reading your thread all. I do not know wether this thread is finally closed or not but I have questions regarding the 4hp20 overhaul, not able to find by google. I hope you can give some clue or direction where to seek answers for the following:
Regarding the overhaul of the 4hp20 quite a lot of material is available, written and video as well. I think one of the most important is the ZF repair guide (https://www.c5club.cz/files/automat/ZF_4HP20.pdf). What I found very interesting is the charpter 1.4 - Adjustment. This is the charpter completely missed by everybody dealing with the ovehaul project.
Could you share your experiment on the Adjustment topic: is it a "german over engineering" thing, does not worth to deal with it? Or it is important but due to the lack of the special ZF tools nobody is applying it?
Rational thinking saying if you are going to change the friction plates, bearings than the shims should be recalculated as well. I was not able to find one YT video presenting any measurement after replacing these parts. If I use the original shims how long the GB will work? There should be pressing reasons t be able to order shims by 0.005mm increment. It indicates the tolerances are small and it should be considered seriously.
What are your thoughts on this subject?
Thank you all the work sharing your experience with the 4HP20 transmission. I learn a lot reading your thread all. I do not know wether this thread is finally closed or not but I have questions regarding the 4hp20 overhaul, not able to find by google. I hope you can give some clue or direction where to seek answers for the following:
Regarding the overhaul of the 4hp20 quite a lot of material is available, written and video as well. I think one of the most important is the ZF repair guide (https://www.c5club.cz/files/automat/ZF_4HP20.pdf). What I found very interesting is the charpter 1.4 - Adjustment. This is the charpter completely missed by everybody dealing with the ovehaul project.
Could you share your experiment on the Adjustment topic: is it a "german over engineering" thing, does not worth to deal with it? Or it is important but due to the lack of the special ZF tools nobody is applying it?
Rational thinking saying if you are going to change the friction plates, bearings than the shims should be recalculated as well. I was not able to find one YT video presenting any measurement after replacing these parts. If I use the original shims how long the GB will work? There should be pressing reasons t be able to order shims by 0.005mm increment. It indicates the tolerances are small and it should be considered seriously.
What are your thoughts on this subject?
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xantia_v6
- Forum Admin Team
- Posts: 10754
- Joined: 09 Nov 2005, 22:03
- x 1357
Re: Brief Encounter II - The Sequel
I cant find an "adjustment" section in that document, can you give the page number?Mita11 wrote: 01 Sep 2025, 00:06 I think one of the most important is the ZF repair guide (https://www.c5club.cz/files/automat/ZF_4HP20.pdf). What I found very interesting is the charpter 1.4 - Adjustment. This is the charpter completely missed by everybody dealing with the ovehaul project.
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mickthemaverick
- Moderating Team
- Posts: 20326
- Joined: 11 May 2019, 17:56
- x 7856
Re: Brief Encounter II - The Sequel
I think Mita is referring to Chapter 2 Page 14 !
I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure!
I used to ride on two wheels, but now I need all four!
I used to ride on two wheels, but now I need all four!
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Mita11
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 31 Aug 2025, 19:51
Re: Brief Encounter II - The Sequel
I am sorry I messed up the links - here is the right one for the repair manual: https://akpphelp.ru/images/contents/fil ... manual.pdf.
Concerning this gearbox there are two important documents on the net:
- one is the Technical training document, with detailed description, operation of the GB, link provided in my previous post
- the repair manual, link provided in this post above. Please read the charpter 1.4 for adjustments in this document.
These two documents cover almost all of the aspects of the GB, a must have for DIY people.
One more "surprise" in this repair manual: there are a ton of reference for 'specification number" in this material. Search for "specification" and you will see. It seems these specifications contain more data about the adjustment. Unfortunatel the google search for these specification + numbers yields zero results for me. Time to enroll into the deep search class.
Concerning this gearbox there are two important documents on the net:
- one is the Technical training document, with detailed description, operation of the GB, link provided in my previous post
- the repair manual, link provided in this post above. Please read the charpter 1.4 for adjustments in this document.
These two documents cover almost all of the aspects of the GB, a must have for DIY people.
One more "surprise" in this repair manual: there are a ton of reference for 'specification number" in this material. Search for "specification" and you will see. It seems these specifications contain more data about the adjustment. Unfortunatel the google search for these specification + numbers yields zero results for me. Time to enroll into the deep search class.
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xantia_v6
- Forum Admin Team
- Posts: 10754
- Joined: 09 Nov 2005, 22:03
- x 1357
Re: Brief Encounter II - The Sequel
Thank you for posting the link to the repair manual. I don't think that I had previously seen that document.
One comment I would make is that the "adjustments" should only be necessary if replacing a related component. If the transmission is only dismantled to replace the oil filter (and torque convertor) then it should be OK to reassemble with the original spacers. My recollection is that when Jim was working with these transmissions he only once encountered a worn clutch pack, which was due to a broken spring in the valve body.
One comment I would make is that the "adjustments" should only be necessary if replacing a related component. If the transmission is only dismantled to replace the oil filter (and torque convertor) then it should be OK to reassemble with the original spacers. My recollection is that when Jim was working with these transmissions he only once encountered a worn clutch pack, which was due to a broken spring in the valve body.
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Mita11
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 31 Aug 2025, 19:51
Re: Brief Encounter II - The Sequel
Yes, he used parts from the donor GB as far as I remember.
My plan is to overhaul my donor GB and replace current GB with it. The current GB developed a whinning noise at cold and a some shifting problems:
- sometimes the the GB is not able to switch to 4th gear when on operating temperature
- every switch up is whinning and seems to be late
- no kicking on up-down switch luckily
- stopped to use the car, do not want to do more harm to the GB
The current GB has a 140k km in it. The donor GB status is unknown, but it is not terrible at first sight. Not obivious damage on the gears, magnets collected fine metal dust. Oil was pitch black, only half a litre in it - drained before shipping -. TC status is unknown.
I am going to perform an overhaul on the donor GB: replacing all the clutches, seals, gaskets, filters. All the bearing will be inspected for degradation. If necessary they will be replaced as well (If I will be able to identify the type). If it will be ready than the GBs will be swapped.
At this moment my donor GB is 80% disassembled. Two spring plates require 80mm and 105mm internal diameter pipes to be able to press down and remove the fixtures.
I got the special head for the Break F slotted screw removal. Having this tool the removal of this screw is easy.
After the full disassembly I will clean all the components and I will check the parts for friction damage. If I find something interesting I will share the photos.
When I finished the mechanical part the next step wll be the disassembly, cleaning, inspection of the hidraulic block. Very interested to see the status of the springs.
Other good news: I got the Diag module from AliE with SuperScan SW and it is working with my engine and GB ECU. I got two stored error for the current GB, 5FE and 5F9. Needs to be investigate.
One final thought: I am a newbie on this forum but I am asking: would it be better to open a new thread about ths project? After 10 years maybe it is not considered as spamming the forum. I do not know what is right: riding this thread or open a new one. Opinions are welcome.
The overhaul kit will be ordered from AliE. Interestingly no seller mention Renault at the product description of the ovehaul kits, only Citroen, PSA, Mercedes. Need to be checked first with the Seller the rightness of the kit based on the GB ZF's number I believe.
I plan to use Mannol ATF AG52 oil. It has a ZF No. S671 090 170 certification referring to ZF Lifeguard 5.
My plan is to overhaul my donor GB and replace current GB with it. The current GB developed a whinning noise at cold and a some shifting problems:
- sometimes the the GB is not able to switch to 4th gear when on operating temperature
- every switch up is whinning and seems to be late
- no kicking on up-down switch luckily
- stopped to use the car, do not want to do more harm to the GB
The current GB has a 140k km in it. The donor GB status is unknown, but it is not terrible at first sight. Not obivious damage on the gears, magnets collected fine metal dust. Oil was pitch black, only half a litre in it - drained before shipping -. TC status is unknown.
I am going to perform an overhaul on the donor GB: replacing all the clutches, seals, gaskets, filters. All the bearing will be inspected for degradation. If necessary they will be replaced as well (If I will be able to identify the type). If it will be ready than the GBs will be swapped.
At this moment my donor GB is 80% disassembled. Two spring plates require 80mm and 105mm internal diameter pipes to be able to press down and remove the fixtures.
I got the special head for the Break F slotted screw removal. Having this tool the removal of this screw is easy.
After the full disassembly I will clean all the components and I will check the parts for friction damage. If I find something interesting I will share the photos.
When I finished the mechanical part the next step wll be the disassembly, cleaning, inspection of the hidraulic block. Very interested to see the status of the springs.
Other good news: I got the Diag module from AliE with SuperScan SW and it is working with my engine and GB ECU. I got two stored error for the current GB, 5FE and 5F9. Needs to be investigate.
One final thought: I am a newbie on this forum but I am asking: would it be better to open a new thread about ths project? After 10 years maybe it is not considered as spamming the forum. I do not know what is right: riding this thread or open a new one. Opinions are welcome.
The overhaul kit will be ordered from AliE. Interestingly no seller mention Renault at the product description of the ovehaul kits, only Citroen, PSA, Mercedes. Need to be checked first with the Seller the rightness of the kit based on the GB ZF's number I believe.
I plan to use Mannol ATF AG52 oil. It has a ZF No. S671 090 170 certification referring to ZF Lifeguard 5.