TU5JP4 coil pack

[Estax]

Hello!
I am doing an engine swap on my AX. Going to run a TU5JP4 from a C4 with megasquirt.
Started wondering, can i use the original 1.6 coil pack on the engine? It’s got two coils wasted spark, so two signal inputs from the ecu. Does anyone know what signal it requires? 5V/12V? Also does it have an integrated amplifier or does it need an external one?

Any information on the coil will be appreciated, even of it’s in favor of dumping it.

Thanks!

[wheeler]

Started wondering, can i use the original 1.6 coil pack on the engine?

What else would you use?

The coil has a 12v supply & is triggered by the ECU which switches the earth.

[Estax]

What else would you use?

The coil has a 12v supply & is triggered by the ECU which switches the earth.

I would use literally any other coil since it seems the TU5 one has almost no available documentation.
Might as well go for coil-on-plugs, if i’m already switching the coil out.

So is the ECU directly switching the earth for the primary coil itself? Or has the pack got integrated transistors which just get a signal from the ECU?

Also, what is the purpose of the fourth pin on the coil pack? Would assume it goes to ground. But as they say, assumption is the mother of all f***ups…

[ozvtr]

So is the ECU directly switching the earth for the primary coil itself? Or has the pack got integrated transistors which just get a signal from the ECU?

It's just the 2 coils, no electronics.

Also, what is the purpose of the fourth pin on the coil pack? Would assume it goes to ground. But as they say, assumption is the mother of all f***ups…

It allows the engine ECU to monitor supply voltage at the coil pack for diagnostics.

[Estax]

It's just the 2 coils, no electronics.

Thanks! That’s what i was looking for!

I’m then going to use an external amplifier which i have laying about.
Hope to finish the wiring and have it running by the end of the month.

[metalnavy]

Hi !

I'm actually doing a engine swap with the same configuration (speeduino, tu5jp4 and tu5jp4 coils) on a 205.

And I'm using a Bosch-like (Hella) ignition module between the coils and speeduino (0 277 100 200).

I've set the ignition jumper on +12v on the Speeduino Board (0.4.3.d); and i've put the spark output trigger on "GOING LOW" in TunerStudio Lite.
I've also put the spark plugs on the engine head, so I could get a ground and see if any spark comes up.

However; i'm still not getting any spark !

My assumption about the coil pack pins :
1) (brown); +12v
2) (green with shield); debug wire (useless)
3) (light blue); ign 1
4) (light grey): ign 2

And this is how I plugged my ignition module :
1) coil ign 1 (light blue)
2) ecu ign 1
3) NC
4) Chassis ground
5) NC
6) coil ign 2 (light grey)
7) ecu ign 2

What i've tried :
- Tunerstudio -> Going High : All the leds are constantly lit up ans still no spark


Here are my ressources :
https://ibb.co/hRXyN7J1 Ignition Module Pinout

If anyone could help me out about this situation i'd be soooo thankful

Take Care !

[ozvtr]

Your coil pack connections are wrong.

Pin 1 is the coil for cylinders 1 and 4.
Pin 2 is the coil for cylinders 2 and 3.
Pin 3 is ECU feed back.
Pin 4 is +12V.

REMEMBER: the cylinder count is from flywheel to pulley, opposite to everybody else! But you probably knew that.

From your ignition module diagram, the module charges the coils on a positive signal and fires the spark on a negative going signal. Which seems to be what you have set up. The dwell (the coil charge time) is set up by your speeduino. Unfortunately I can't tell you what the dwell would be. If you can't find any specs you might have to fudge it.
I used to have to set the points gap and check the dwell angle on the Kettering ignition of my cars back in the '80s and '90s...LOL.
Good luck.

[metalnavy]

Hi !

AH ! I've counted the other way around (from alternator pulley to gearbox) LOL.
But I think it doesnt change a lot since i'm routing paired injectors and using wasted spark. I'll rewire the injectors and coils just in case.

About the coils.

What I did is that the wire with an interference shield on it (2nd one, green); I assumed that it was the debug wire for the ECU.

However from your experience, it would mean its the wire for cylinders 2 and 3 ??

I find it utterly weird that the only wire with shielding is used for solely the clylinders 2 and 3 and not the ECU debug wire.

I'll try ro reverse the wires and I'll update you about it !

Btw I didnt know it was that hard in the 90's to just make ignition work LMAO. Like you had to gap thinks like it's some valve seats, you guys were patient damn !

Thank you sooo much and have a nice evening in Australia !

[ozvtr]

Hi !

AH ! I've counted the other way around (from alternator pulley to gearbox) LOL.
But I think it doesnt change a lot since i'm routing paired injectors and using wasted spark. I'll rewire the injectors and coils just in case.

Yes, and because you are running the stock coil pack, the cylinder numbers wont matter, just the pin numbers in the plug. However that's PSAs numbering, your speeduino might run a different setup!? It's mainly for fault diagnosis. You need to know which cylinder the ECU is talking about.
However the injector firing order, CAM timing and your Speeduino need to lineup which ever way you go. The CAM timing might stuff you up so you may need to look into that. A trap for the unwary!?

About the coils.

What I did is that the wire with an interference shield on it (2nd one, green); I assumed that it was the debug wire for the ECU.

However from your experience, it would mean its the wire for cylinders 2 and 3 ??

I find it utterly weird that the only wire with shielding is used for solely the clylinders 2 and 3 and not the ECU debug wire.

The shielded wire is the feed back line. Are you sure about the contact numbers in the plug?

Btw I didnt know it was that hard in the 90's to just make ignition work LMAO. Like you had to gap thinks like it's some valve seats, you guys were patient damn !

Well, in many ways they were much easier fault find.
I had two cars with the Kettering ignitions in them. A 1976 Ford TD Cortina (6 cylinder) and a 1981 Mazda 323. Sold the Cortina in 1984 and bought a Ford Telstar (Mazda 626), but I maintained the 323 well into the 2000's. Bought a Mitsubishi Lancer (CG model) and Citroen C2 in 2002 and 2004. They were my first fuel injection cars.
Redundant test equipment I own include the Dwell angle meter and timing light. Well, I still use the timing light occasionally on my 1984 Ford meteor. LOL!

[metalnavy]

Hi ! So here are some news lmao

I tried to reverse the pins and It didn't change a thing. Maybe my coils are dead or idk. But in both ways (12v, debug, A, B or A, B, debug, 12v) didn't work. I checked my module igniter with a multimeter and it was working fine.. So i'm really clueless right now lol

So as I was trying to get some spark using the stock coil and the module igniter; I did a terrible mistake.

I FRIED my arduino mega by shorting 12v et 5v pins of the ignition output (I hope I did not ALSO fry the speeduino shield, it's hella expensive).

So unfortunately i'm not gonna use the stock coil pack . I might cut it and half and reverse engineer it so people could understand how this bloody engine works.



About the cam sensor; according to some french forums; the cam signal is sent by the stock coil pack (which i'm NOT gonna use). Allegedly, it detects the engine fire and send the signal to the ECU.

Since i'm not gonna get that signal (or maybe the r8 smart coils can, to explore ...); i'm gonna setup the ECU in wasted spark and paired injectors using smart coils.
According to the ONLY good speeduino french source available (UltimateMaking); it can work pretty well (idk the drawback and benefits tbh. less good vaporization ? idk).


You know I thought about installing some weber carburators and distributors; it seems soooo much easier lol. I miss the 80's/90's. Is the stroboscopic light such a good investement ? Why do you have to use it ?

Anyways thanks for the help ! I'll keep you in touch

[Estax]

Hello!

I think that the JP4 coil pack must be mounted on the cylinder head anytime you're trying to get a spark. It's got a metal surface beneath that connects to the head and is the ground for any sparks that "didn't happen". Otherwise the accumulated energy finds it easiest to discharge back into the ignition module.

Also had some problems with the ignition in the beginning which were due to the original pack being broken. Got a used one from the scrappy which works well now.
I'm using an ignition amplifier from a 200SX. Using about 2.5 dwell and works fine.
I've got the crank sensor set to 114° BTDC based on the info from some forums. Anyone care to confirm this? Haven't got a strobe light, and even if i did, wouldn't be able to connect it as there are no plug wires.

Sorting out some fuelling problems now as the stock injectors seem to be quite small. Does anyone know what flow are the stock ones rated?

Got the engine running well enough for a test drive last week by estimating the injector flow and CPS angle, but would like to correct them for future avoidance of problems...

[metalnavy]

Hi !

Yeah it's 120°/114° depeding if you're on rising edge or rising low for the VR sensor.

I think they are 120cc but i'm not quite sure ... To be sure I increased the fuel pressure to 4 bar so it can run on E85 without problem

Take care