207cc Crank but no start.

[Colin2206]

My wife's car is the 207cc, 1.6l petrol, 2008.
I started it ok, left it on idle and pumped up a soft tyre, and before my wife could get in, it just died.

It cranks easily enough, the battery is fully charged, left it on charge overnight, and the condition indicator on the battery is fine. The car will cough occassionaly but thats all. I was trying to check the fuel pump fuse but Haynes manual gives it as F5 (?) in the engine fuse box but that is an unused spot; so first question, does anyone know the correct fuse for the fuel pump. I'm not sure if I can hear the pump start on ignition, there is a faint directionless hum, but I've never noticed the fuel pump before either. The only other "symptom" in the battery flashes all the time, even with a full battery, tried two now, even though the starter operates on full power for long throws. It takes a good few attempts before the battery even starts to get tired. There are no fault codes on the fault reader, though it is just a basic one.

If it stays dry I am going to:
Check the spark plugs to see it they are wet
uncover the top of the fuel pump and the check for voltage and return
see if the pump actually works

All a bit old school I know but it gives me a start.
Any thoughts on the flashing battery light. Is that trying to tell me something?
Any thoughs appreciated.

[PaulC5]

Maybe the crank shaft sensor has failed - if you have a rev counter does it show anything when trying to start or if your code reader does live data does it show anything ? A search may give methods to test the sensor.

Have you looked in the handbook for the fuses ? A quick look at one for a 10/2007 to 6/2008 suggests as in Haynes engine fuse box, F5 15 amp. This topic has a link to the handbooks, click on the flag top right to select your language and then your car. viewtopic.php?t=63209

[wheeler]

Any thoughts on the flashing battery light. Is that trying to tell me something?
Any thoughs appreciated.

Just means the car is in economy mode, this will stop once you get the car started.

Yes basics first, spark & fuel?
This is where a can of easy start comes in useful.

[Colin2206]

Well got a little done before the rain started.
Spark plugs are dry.
There was no pressure in the common rail as per small valve at passenger side. However, when I put a bottle on the petrol supply to the rail, got flow on ignition, just a spurt. Then continuous flow at "start". So, I'm interpeting this as;
fuel supply is ok
Injectors not injecting hence the dry spark plugs

So tomorrow, if dry, to finalise fuel side, I'll check that the common rail holds pressure. I wasn't able to do this today and yes I dropped the daft wee clip from the petrol pipe union which is incredibly difficult to release. So jubilee clips first. If the rail does hold pressure then it is electrical/control issue.

PaulC5. I'll check the rev. counter tomorrow.

To check for a spark, in the past I simply clamped a plug to the block and spun the engine. Is that to simple for these cars (I know its not a "modern" car but just don't know how sensitive the control electronics is)?

[Colin2206]

Update;
Confirmed the common rail gets pressurized fuel. Cranked the engine a few times, left it for a couple minutes and tried the pressure relief valve and got a good pressure jet. Haven't actually measured it but for the moment I'm going with good fuel supply.
Tried to confirm spark plugs are sparking but my idea of just clamping spark plug & coil pack to block doesn't work. The contact between coil and spark plug is spring loaded and so pushes itself free. I can't clamp plug to coil to block. I tried different configuration, no spark visible but that might be because of the spring braking the connection. There are three wires to each coil pack, black (earth), a 7.2v* supply on ignition and 7.2v on 3rd wire on cranking.
* one supply gave only 4.2v. I don't think one poor coil pack would stop the engine starting but maybe someone knows better.

PaulC5. No revs. even on extended crank.
Also removed oil cap and confirmed camshaft rotates on cranking.

So next steps.
Would still like to see a spark at the spark plug, just not sure how to do this with the spring loaded contact between coil and spark plug, so any ideas welcome.
Check the crankshaft sensor which I believe is near the bottom of the engine. Which is a major pain because where the car is sitting is on a slope and will take effort to get it to a level area to jack up. Also I would have though a bad sensor would have come up on fault code reader.
As the spark plugs have remained dry thro' all of this, I'll have to check the injector feed. This is new territory of me, so will be reading Haynes tonight.
Any suggestions would be welcome.

[ozvtr]

Squirt some "starting fluid" (aerostart, ether, brake cleaner, etc) down the throttle body while cranking the engine.
If the engine coughs and splutters, then you have a fueling problem (injector related probably from what you say).
If you get absolutely nothing, then you have a spark problem. FYI the injectors and coil are on the same electrical circuit! That may be a hint. So if you have no spark AND no injectors, start looking at the power supply.
This is the quickest and simplest way to check spark on a modern engine.
If you do have spark but the injectors are not running the injector controller in the engine ECU may be dead. Bad news but possible.
"Nothing" may also indicate a bad crank angle sensor. As to your question, some ECU's pick up bad crank angle sensors...and some don't.
If you have no codes, unfortunately, I would lean toward an engine ECU problem.
Starting fluid first!

[Colin2206]

Thank you ozvtr and others.

I've been away and done nothing to the car since, other than putting it under cover today (which required a borrowed electric winch to pull it up a short incline).
So tomorrow I will start from scratch, sparks and plugs. Only thing I would added to the symtons is that the electric windows and folding roof will not work. My memory is that they should work on the ignition. Could anyone confirm? Also are there electrical diagrams on the Forum?

[PaulC5]

Possibly whilst the car is in economy mode the windows and roof will not work until the engine is running to get it out of economy mode. Have a look in the handbook.
A failed crank shaft sensor may not give a fault code.

[Colin2206]

Update.
Got access to electrical diagrams via Service Box "sedre". Not the most informative but eventually got the info I was looking for.

Checked the crankshaft sensor wiring, all ok but fitted a new sensor anyway.
Confirmed the continuity of the ignition coil earth/switch wires back to ECU plug, all ok.
On advice of electrician checked the supply feed to the ECU. Nothing but..

I assume the ECU comes on with ignition? Can anyone confirm? I'm working by myself so will need to be inventive to check on crank. Also I am checking on the plug and battery negative i.e. the plug is not on the ECU. I don't think that will make a difference but again if you know different please let me know.
The feed to the ECU is via an Engine Management Single Relay, in turn fed from the Engine Fusebox. All fuses in box are ok. There are no visible relays in fusebox, only fuses and big connector plugs. I don't have a location for this Relay and I can't find a location on ServiceBox. Any suggestion for this please. A Relay failing meets all the symptons but not much I can do if I can't find the thing.

[wurlycorner]

Not that I wish to link to another forum but have you confirmed the key is still matched/nothing silly happened there?
Apparently this is a simple way to tell and is applicable to 206cc's
https://www.peugeotforums.com/threads/c ... st.290202/

Also in case you're not happy with the fuse box info you already have, apparently this is also applicable to your vehicle
https://fusesdiagram.com/peugeot/fuses- ... t-206.html

After that, as you've pretty much already covered all the basics that can be done without getting into further diagnostics, I do think it's worthwhile investing in at least a code scanner if you don't already have one but ideally something slightly better than shows live data (or ask a nearby member who has one if they can help) to see if any fault codes logged, to check the ECU is live/receiving crank signal etc. It won't be a magic bullet, but it can certainly provide direction and save a lot of time.

[Colin2206]

Thanks for the quick reply.
I'll double check with the key, just to be sure.

I think I need to run down this Relay. It has only one job, to feed the ECU and, assuming no failure of the harness/connections, it is not delivering. I would have thought the relay would be in the fusebox as the ECU is mounted on the side of the fusebox, so it must be somewhere close.

[wheeler]

If it was a faulty key the engine would not have stopped whilst running, i would also have expected to see a warning message on the central display about the immobiliser.

Lots of electrical functions like windows & roof will be disabled in eco mode (flashing battery lamp).

The main supply relay for the engine management system is an integral part of the BSM (under bonnet fuse box) its not (officially) a separately replaceable part.

[Colin2206]

Thank you for that Wheeler; it was something I was begining to suspect. I got up early this morning and took the fuesbox of entirely, hoping there would be a relay underneath and obviously there is not.
Now, I'm relying on no live feed to the ECU with ignition on and an electrical diagram from ServiceBox. This shows the Relay feeding a supply to Pin 2 on 53Vv NR which it's not. Any otherway to interpet this? or any other check I can carry out?. I'll be re-checking before I change anything out.

Also, is this Fusebox (and relay) just that or is it keyed/coded in someway. I'll check prices but a 2nd hand one might need to be an option.

[wurlycorner]

Now, I'm relying on no live feed to the ECU with ignition on and an electrical diagram from ServiceBox. This shows the Relay feeding a supply to Pin 2 on 53Vv NR which it's not. Any otherway to interpet this? or any other check I can carry out?.

Can you post the wiring diagram in here as an image? Otherwise if we can't see the wiring diagram, there's no way we can comment unfortunately!

[wheeler]

The BSM is not coded so can use second hand no problem.

Yes please post the diagram you are using