Electric Vehicles & Infrastructure - Positive & Negative

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GiveMeABreak
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Electric Vehicles & Infrastructure - Positive & Negative

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As Neil has suggested, I've created a new thread so as not to pollute the EV purists threads ( :) )

So use this thread to debate the Pros / Cons, positives and negatives of Electric Vehicles and EV infrastructure.
GiveMeABreak wrote: 19 Sep 2024, 10:16I'm not actually opposed to EVs in principle, but I am opposed to being forced into having one unnecessarily - but it's all the surrounding issues like what about people in flats / high rise blocks - how are they going to charge their vehicles? What about people in rural areas where the single track and very poor quality roads (without pavements in many cases) won't support charging infrastructure. There's too many unsolved issues that need addressing and that is never going to happen in 5 years time.
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Re: Electric Vehicles & Infrastructure - Positive & Negative

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GiveMeABreak wrote: 19 Sep 2024, 10:16 I'm not actually opposed to EVs in principle, but I am opposed to being forced into having one unnecessarily - but it's all the surrounding issues like what about people in flats / high rise blocks - how are they going to charge their vehicles? What about people in rural areas where the single track and very poor quality roads (without pavements in many cases) won't support charging infrastructure. There's too many unsolved issues that need addressing and that is never going to happen in 5 years time.
exactly
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bobins
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Re: Electric Vehicles & Infrastructure - Positive & Negative

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I think the EV market isn't quite as buoyant as the government and EVangelists would like it to be. You don't have to go far to find stories of unsold EVs stacking up and not selling. The fleet sale market have bought into them for the tax breaks, but there's only so many of them that can be bought, and if the resale values aren't great then the economics start to get a closer examination. There will always be a good number of retail sales of EVs as they do suit some people's needs, but I think the general consensus is that EV sales could (should) be a lot higher, but the market isn't biting.
As an aside - I was talking to a relative who'd had to have a company EV whether they liked it or not. They rated it as 'OK', nothing more, nothing less. They were home charging and getting paid 8p/mile expenses. Those in the company who couldn't do home charging and had to charge on the road were losing £200-300/month on expenses. Hardly a plus point :?
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Re: Electric Vehicles & Infrastructure - Positive & Negative

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My grandchildren have a lot of comments to make when I wear these. Unfortuneately they can run (well walk ) faster than me so there is not a lot I can do about it except wear more tee shirts like it
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Re: Electric Vehicles & Infrastructure - Positive & Negative

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Gibbo2286 wrote: 19 Sep 2024, 09:41 Got a pair of old 'stick in the muds' here. :-D
I've said it before and I'll say it again:

EVs are great, everyone should have one
Rolls Royce's are great, everyone should have one.
:-D
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Re: Electric Vehicles & Infrastructure - Positive & Negative

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And, yes, I do go out with them wearing stuff like this
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Re: Electric Vehicles & Infrastructure - Positive & Negative

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bobins wrote: 19 Sep 2024, 10:31 I think the EV market isn't quite as buoyant as the government and EVangelists would like it to be. You don't have to go far to find stories of unsold EVs stacking up and not selling. The fleet sale market have bought into them for the tax breaks, but there's only so many of them that can be bought, and if the resale values aren't great then the economics start to get a closer examination. There will always be a good number of retail sales of EVs as they do suit some people's needs, but I think the general consensus is that EV sales could (should) be a lot higher, but the market isn't biting.
As an aside - I was talking to a relative who'd had to have a company EV whether they liked it or not. They rated it as 'OK', nothing more, nothing less. They were home charging and getting paid 8p/mile expenses. Those in the company who couldn't do home charging and had to charge on the road were losing £200-300/month on expenses. Hardly a plus point :?
Mercedes Man, my relative with the company lease EV said recently that everyone in his company with EVs wants to hand them back but they are stuck until the end of the contract.

And, interestingly, his car was in Mercedes for a month in january past. It quite literally froze up in the low temperatures. It could not be made to start or move at all! Even the tow truck driver had to winch it on wheels "dragging" as nothing worked. The tow truck driver said if he knew it was an EV he would not have turned up as his truck was not equipped to deal with EVs as he had no wheel skates. His depot has a dedicated EV recovery truck for just these instances. Mercedes Man's wife's car was parked behind his in the drive so she was blocked in completely even though her car started first time. She had to phone a relative to see if they could take her to her work.

And, one of the other fleet Mercedes EQs has had 3 new motor under warranty. All in one firm!
Last edited by Dormouse on 23 Sep 2024, 14:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Electric Vehicles & Infrastructure Positive & Negative

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The discussion is reasonably on track, but if its going to fall into the dead-end trap of of unnecessary polarisation that's the time for a new thread. "Electrification positive and Negative" and fill it with the usual garbage from you tube at both ends of the scale. A retrograde step in my view and a thread I wouldn't personally provide any counter-argument or content for.

I have ceased commenting on that sort of thing. For me the electric car is a simple thing, its a car that uses an alternative fuel to petrol, diesel, hydrogen, bio fuel or anything else. Nothing to dislike there and it works for me. :-D Not bothered in the slightest about the move to electrification or the build out of infrastructure.

History of the petrol/diesel infrastructure tells us that motoring was originally for the well-heeled, fuel was in 2-gallon cans, and not a single house or flat was ever provided with a home petrol pump. Meanwhile on-the-road fuelling expanded to virtually every village and hamlet across the UK they all had their set of pumps before....many years later the small operators became unviable, hamlet and village petrol pumps disappeared and the infrastructure changed to big volume stations in in urban areas, and retail parks and supermarkets.

Increasingly bigger EV Charging Hubs are being developed and those probably will be where longer term infrastructure will jump to, while at the same time many of the smaller settlements in Northumberland at least, are getting "on-the-road" fuel dispensers of the electric variety back again after many years without petrol pumps!

Neil
Last edited by GiveMeABreak on 19 Sep 2024, 11:31, edited 1 time in total.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Electric Vehicles & Infrastructure Positive & Negative

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But you can fill an ICE vehicle in a couple of minutes! - Standard domestic charging (7.4KW) without the £ thousands needed for a larger capacity charger and somewhere to park the car, can take 7.1 hours (using new e-C3 as an example). It can charge 20% to 80% in 26 minutes fair enough, but using a 100WK charger, and from what I've read, batteries don't do well with constant rapid charging (a la Leaf) which can lead to dead cells more quickly.

So if my calculations are right @ average 25p per kWh and the E-C3 having a 44KW battery, that would be £11 to charge with a claimed range of 199 miles (but let's take 20% off that straight away as you're not supposed to charge these up past 80%. so 160 mile range.

It all goes pear shaped if using a fast charger at 75kWh though, £34.76 which is far more than it costs in my diesel, and I get back half an hour of my life not wasted in paying for over-priced coffee whilst I'm waiting

Today's rant over, whilst I plan a day out to Tenby tomorrow, in my Diesel, so a nice coastal drive for some proper Fish and Chips and sea air to lower the BP.
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Re: Electric Vehicles & Infrastructure Positive & Negative

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Some of the same arguments that have done the rounds since 2010 there Marc.
My experience so far is that little of that actually happens or matters, I've never once had to queue to charge even when Tesco were doing it for free nor have I had to sit and wait while it charges even with my first Zoe which had only 110 miles range.
I went from my place to Gloucester, on from there to Worcester where I could have charged whilst I did some business but didn't then back home via Ross on Wye where I did a ten minute top up and had a pee, home with plenty left and no sweat.
With the newer Zoe I can go from here to my former home in Birmingham and back without the need to stop and charge en-route.
Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new. (Albert Einstein)
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Electric Vehicles & Infrastructure - Positive & Negative

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That's a good example for your personal use Eric. I think the big problems are going to be the UK as a whole, where unlike cities, people in the country still living in our caves are going to suffer most.
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Re: Electric Vehicles & Infrastructure Positive & Negative

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NewcastleFalcon wrote: 19 Sep 2024, 10:54
I have ceased commenting on that sort of thing. For me the electric car is a simple thing, its a car that uses an alternative fuel to petrol, diesel, hydrogen, bio fuel or anything else. Nothing to dislike there and it works for me. :-D Not bothered in the slightest about the move to electrification or the build out of infrastructure.

Neil
I think your point goes to the heart of the argument - EVs work for you, as they do for many, but they're not a universal solution. The pushback from a lot of people comes from the point of view that they quite obviously don't suit everyone, and those people pushing back aren't being listened to. Hardly an unreasonable position.

The way I see it -as a sweeping statement- there are 4 types of people that EVs are suited to:
Those that have a regular and predictable commute with a high chance of a cheap recharge at either end of their journey.
Those ruled by political/ideological dogma.
Those who are retired or otherwise 'free' where the hardest decision to make each day is - where to go and whether to have the flapjack or slice of Victoria sponge with their coffee. :-D
And those that derive income from promoting EVs.

For everyone else, they are not necessarily the ideal form of transport.
:)
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Re: Electric Vehicles & Infrastructure - Positive & Negative

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Would like to see these come to fruition:

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Re: Electric Vehicles & Infrastructure - Positive & Negative

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Toyota increasing the sea levels and drowning everyone :twisted:
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Re: Electric Vehicles & Infrastructure - Positive & Negative

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:rofl:

We can't win! :-D Back to the Horse & Cart.
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