Hydraulic Fluid question

Jade Falcon · Unread post by **Jade Falcon** » 22 Aug 2005, 03:41

Okay, I've got an XM, and the Hydraulic Fluid warning light blinked on for half a second.
Now I know the XM'x electrics can be a bit...eccentric, but I decided to check the fluid level anyway. Following the instructions of the manual I turned the engine on and put the car to it's maximum height.
The manual (both the owners and Haynes) say the ideal position for the float is between the two red lines. The float unfortunately is near the top, now does this mean there's too little fluid, too much or what. Neither book makes that clear and the local Citroen garage said that it was alright just claiming that the optimal position was between the lines.
However, I'd like to check here.

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 22 Aug 2005, 03:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jade Falcon

Okay, I've got an XM, and the Hydraulic Fluid warning light blinked on for half a second.
Now I know the XM'x electrics can be a bit...eccentric, but I decided to check the fluid level anyway. Following the instructions of the manual I turned the engine on and put the car to it's maximum height.
The manual (both the owners and Haynes) say the ideal position for the float is between the two red lines. The float unfortunately is near the top, now does this mean there's too little fluid, too much or what. Neither book makes that clear and the local Citroen garage said that it was alright just claiming that the optimal position was between the lines.
However, I'd like to check here.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Set the suspension to full height while the engine is running, wait for the height to stabalize, and the orange plastic disc should be between the two red lines, so you have too much fluid. (Just give the sensor a flick with your finger as well just in case its stuck, which isn't unheard of)
The only problem with too much fluid is that if the car is fully depressurized (height control lever set down, or just waiting a couple of weeks) nearly all the oil returns to the tank so it might overflow the top of the tank and make a mess.
There seems to be quite a bit of lattitude before this happens though, my Xantia had too much fluid in the tank when I got it, reading off the top of the scale, and when I bled the brakes I simply didn't put the excess fluid back in the tank until the level was correct - it was well over half a litre too much and it hadn't been overflowing.
If you have a clean plastic container you could siphon off some oil, or if the brakes are due for bleeding just do what I did and bleed the brakes, only returning as much fluid as needed to get the level right...
Regards,
Simon

Unread post by **alan s** » 22 Aug 2005, 03:54

It probably means the flat's stuck.
Not a very reliable means of checking the level as I've found very few seem to read all that accurately. I use the most reliable system namely set to normal ride height, lift the filler cap, insert index finger and when it gets wet, you've got enough. If the finger doesn't reach the fluid, keep filling until it does.
A sudden decrease in level without showing an external leak is usually indicative of a sphere that's ruptured. A sudden overflowing followed by a sudden drop again without an obvious leak, is usually the same problem cause by a sudden rush of nitrogen into the tank folloed by it then finding its way above the sphere membrane.
Alan S

Jade Falcon · Unread post by **Jade Falcon** » 23 Aug 2005, 02:53

Well I properly checked the level today and the flat stayed static all the time so I checked the level manually.
There was fluid but it was pretty low so I put enough fluid in. Thanks for the replies. It seems to be both the handbook and Haynes book are detailed in some fields but are vague in others.

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 23 Aug 2005, 03:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jade Falcon

Well I properly checked the level today and the flat stayed static all the time so I checked the level manually.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It will stay reading full up any time the level is too high, so if you just went from extremely high, to too high, it would read the same [:D] That doesn't mean the guage is faulty, it just means in all cases the level was too high. Even when the level is correct, in the normal or low height positions the guage will read full up as well.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
There was fluid but it was pretty low so I put enough fluid in.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Whoa there - what height level was the car set to when the oil level seemed "pretty low" ? It's very important to note that when the height control is set to high, (during checking the level) the amount of fluid in the tank is at the MINIMUM level that it reaches in normal operation.
It is NORMAL for there to be not much oil in the tank in this case, as it is this MINIMUM level that you are checking, and the guage is calibrated to read this low level.
Not understanding this and overfilling as a consequence is a common mistake.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Thanks for the replies. It seems to be both the handbook and Haynes book are detailed in some fields but are vague in others.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No, its pretty clear - run the car with the suspension set to high, wait for the height to stabalize, and check the orange disc is between the red marks, simple as that.
Where people come unstuck is in not realizing that this "normal" reading on the guage corresponds to a LOW (but correct) level of oil in the tank.
If you've overfilled it, be prepared for an oily mess next time you lower the car completely to change a sphere...[;)]
The reason the test is done like this is that testing it at "normal" height (whether by finger or guage) would give an incorrect indication of the oil level depending on how well gassed the spheres were.
Spheres with low gas take in more oil at normal ride height, thus a lower amount of oil left in the tank. If someone then topped up this "low" level, the tank may overflow when the system is depressurized. By calibrating the guage to be correct in the full height setting this variation is avoided thus an accurate indication.
Regards,
Simon

Kowalski · Unread post by **Kowalski** » 23 Aug 2005, 04:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mandrake
The reason the test is done like this is that testing it at "normal" height (whether by finger or guage) would give an incorrect indication of the oil level depending on how well gassed the spheres were.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Its not just how gassed the spheres are, its also dependant on how accurately the height correctors are holding the car (they have a range) and how much weight is in the car too but they're all connected.

Jade Falcon · Unread post by **Jade Falcon** » 24 Aug 2005, 19:26

Well I had had the Hydraulic warning light appear quite a few times on and off, and the fluid level was very low even on normal ride height.
Plus, it should be noted that the indicator didn't move whatever level the suspension was set at.

Jade Falcon · Unread post by **Jade Falcon** » 24 Aug 2005, 19:53

To add, I checked the fluid level at normal height, and yes the gauge is still in the same position, I think it's superglued there.

There's what seems to be sufficient fluid, but not what you could call an excess in the tank. I've noticed if you look in the tank there's a light coloured mark (though that might just be a discoloured part in my fluid tank) but it looks too regular. Is this meant to be a maximum level?
Another thing. I noticed there are two screen wash reservoirs, I assume one's for the rear and ones for the front. Is there any way of seeing the screen wash amount short of waiting for the warning light to appear? I generally do put some in every now and then to top up what I've used.
I realise my questions may seem a little obvious but to be honest I don't know that much about cars and think its best to get other peoples opinions.