C5 X7 ATF Vs LDS fluid

[lenny1972]

Hi, yesterday my C5 showed me an alert regarding the suspensions and suggest me to drive not over 90 km/h... After switching off the I've checked the LDS level in the LDS tank and it seems to miss at all...the manual suspension height adjustment doesn't work as expected even if the LDS pump works and the rear L and R suspensions change in height when I operate on the relative buttons (the L and R front suspension instead doesn't seems to change their level when I act on the buttons).
I'm far for home and any local retailer didn't have LDS fluid but I've only found some ATF fluid (either ATF III-H or ATF II-D).
My question is....being the LDS tank about empty can I put ATF (100% synthetic) fluid instead LDS or may I cause damage to the hydroactive suspension system? Is it better to come back home at 90 km/h and once at home find a retailer that have the LDS fluid??
Does anyone used ATF liquid instead of LDS without problems??
Thanks in advance

[Kees]

Be careful, for checking the LDS level!!
You have to put the car in the low position, then you should see the level just at the bottom, or use the diagbox and depressurize the system, then the level must between the 2 mark.
About the ATF, you can use the total fluid for the power steering, but the best way is to use the LDS fluid.
Greetings,
Kees.

[lenny1972]

Thanks Kess for the info about checking LDS fluid (I've already read some other posts dealing with the correct procedure).
The ATF fluid I found was not TOTAL but other brands.
But the "total fluid for the power steering" you mentioned was ATF-type or other composition/formulas?
Below the 2 products I found:
- brand Rhutten. Type DEXRON II D
- brand SASH LUBRICANTS. Type ATF DRAIVER DEXRON III H

Not well-known brands as far as for my personal experience.

[MattBLancs]

Not good to introduce anything other than LDS from what I've read on here,

viewtopic.php?t=53776

viewtopic.php?t=49404 (ok that is LDS put in an LHM Citroen)

[lenny1972]

Thanks Matt for you pov too.
I'll wait and I'll fill with LDS as soon as I can.

[Kees]

On the bottles from Total stands the code for Citroen, they're the same for power steering, and LDS, LDS is cheaper, and as i say, the best way is still to use LDS fluid.
Greetings,
Kees.

[GiveMeABreak]

You need Total Fluide DA or Total Fluide LDS - they are identical, but essentially use nothing apart from LDS or Fluide DA for the power steering / suspension systems on C5 X7s. You can buy other brands of LDS - but as long as it states LDS specifically, you should be fine.

[lenny1972]

You need Total Fluide DA or Total Fluide LDS - they are identical, but essentially use nothing apart from LDS or Fluide DA for the power steering / suspension systems on C5 X7s. You can buy other brands of LDS - but as long as it states LDS specifically, you should be fine.

Message received!
Thanks

[lenny1972]

I've found an already opened (but well-preserved) LDS fluid in my warehouse. I really didn't remind when I've opened it (years ago probably). On the bottle I didn't find any indication about fluid "life-time" once opened.
Is it possible that in this years it should have loose it's physical characteristics? Is it safe to use it? Or is better to buy a brand new bottle?

[Jay-Bruce]

I know what Mark is saying, and officially he is 100% right, however, having been balls deep in every component in the pump, control valves of the X7 suspension, but I havent' opened the spheres and suspension cylinders, there's no seal in there that shouldn't stand up to ATF, and the chances are even better if you use a fully synthetic fluid.

LDS is quintessentially a synthetic oil, with very few additives, and very few sensitive components in the system, they are mostly steels, and aluminium alloys, with fluoro-rubber and maybe some buna-n seals in there, with some poly tetra-fluoror-ethylene in there as well. These are very similar to the materials used for the components of a modern automatic transmission, with the exception of the clutches which aren't present on a LDS suspension system. ATF will have some additives for friction modification, for the clutches, and some antifoaming agents for the sloshing in the torque converter to prevent cavitation. However, at it's core ATF, like LDS is still a hydrocarbon-based light oil.

Back in the day of citroens running LHM, such as the BX or Xantia, LHM was a mineral rather than synthetic suspension fluid, and we sues to use ATF as a poorboys hydraulic flush, cheaper than the official "Hydrauricnage", all oils then were mineral. Now we're on a synthetic oil, and synthetic ATF is available, having looked at what's inside the LDS system, and what's in these oils, I see no reason not to use synthetic ATF as a temporary oil, hell even run on it full time, it's not chemically aggressive to any components in the suspension as far as I can tell.

Short version, yes, you can, but officially shouldn't use synthetic ATF in an LDS car.

As for the age of the fluid in the bottle from the warehouse, don't worry about it, it will be fine. The whole thing about the date of a bottle of fluid stems from brake fluid, which is hygroscopic, meaning it absorbs moisture from the air, and thus an old, or unsealed bottle that has been exposed to the air for a while, becomes water-laden with age. Then the water corrodes the the brake system from the inside out, as well as catastrophically reducing the boiling point of the fluid, increasing your likelihood of encountering brake fade. LHM + LDS + ATF absolutely do not do this, and the old bottle from the warehouse will be OK to use.

[lenny1972]

I know what Mark is saying, and officially he is 100% right, however, having been balls deep in every component in the pump, control valves of the X7 suspension, but I havent' opened the spheres and suspension cylinders, there's no seal in there that shouldn't stand up to ATF, and the chances are even better if you use a fully synthetic fluid.

LDS is quintessentially a synthetic oil, with very few additives, and very few sensitive components in the system, they are mostly steels, and aluminium alloys, with fluoro-rubber and maybe some buna-n seals in there, with some poly tetra-fluoror-ethylene in there as well. These are very similar to the materials used for the components of a modern automatic transmission, with the exception of the clutches which aren't present on a LDS suspension system. ATF will have some additives for friction modification, for the clutches, and some antifoaming agents for the sloshing in the torque converter to prevent cavitation. However, at it's core ATF, like LDS is still a hydrocarbon-based light oil.

Back in the day of citroens running LHM, such as the BX or Xantia, LHM was a mineral rather than synthetic suspension fluid, and we sues to use ATF as a poorboys hydraulic flush, cheaper than the official "Hydrauricnage", all oils then were mineral. Now we're on a synthetic oil, and synthetic ATF is available, having looked at what's inside the LDS system, and what's in these oils, I see no reason not to use synthetic ATF as a temporary oil, hell even run on it full time, it's not chemically aggressive to any components in the suspension as far as I can tell.

Short version, yes, you can, but officially shouldn't use synthetic ATF in an LDS car.

As for the age of the fluid in the bottle from the warehouse, don't worry about it, it will be fine. The whole thing about the date of a bottle of fluid stems from brake fluid, which is hygroscopic, meaning it absorbs moisture from the air, and thus an old, or unsealed bottle that has been exposed to the air for a while, becomes water-laden with age. Then the water corrodes the the brake system from the inside out, as well as catastrophically reducing the boiling point of the fluid, increasing your likelihood of encountering brake fade. LHM + LDS + ATF absolutely do not do this, and the old bottle from the warehouse will be OK to use.

Bruce, thanks a lot for your deep and detailed info about LDS and ATF . Having solved the "emergency" problem (I'll be able to get back home with no issue at all) I'll order some bottles of LDS from my local store and in case of need use the fluid in the remaining bottle also (it has been closed immediately after it's first use).