Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

[Mandrake]

Managed to catch the fluctuating idle speed red handed:



Notice the hiss of air through the ICV hose doesn't change when the idle speed changes...

Could this be an air leak after the throttle butterfly such as the manifold gasket ?

Or perhaps the little tube at the back of the intake manifold leaking ? (Normally blanked off by a clamped rubber cap, but that rubber is looking a bit shabby now)

[Mandrake]

Success! At least on the coolant leaking issue.

I was able to fill and bleed the coolant system without any snags, (such an easy engine to bleed) put everything back together, let it idle until it was hot enough to open the thermostat, took it for a drive around the block, checked for leaks, took it for about a 5 mile drive, checked again for leaks and finally about 20 miles on fast country roads and motorway - still no leaks and everything dry.

So touch wood I think that's the coolant leak solved and the car back operational.

I wasn't able to fit the coolant level sensor wire because I don't have a suitable three pin plug with all three pins fitted. If anyone has one kicking around let me know...

I also replaced the coil pack - I took out the "new" NGK coil pack and refitted what I THINK is the original one that came with the car - hard to tell because I have three second hand Sagem units that all look very similar but this one was the only one with no cracks in the yellow epoxy and had "Old" written on it so I think it is the one that came with this car. (The other two belonged to the previous car)

While changing the coil pack hasn't affected the weird intermittent high idle shown in the previous video, (which only happens when the engine is cold) I probably spent about 40 minutes driving in total and didn't once get an attempt to stall or loss of power or any of the other related symptoms I was previously seeing, so fingers crossed. As part of swapping the coil pack I resolved the oil in the spark plug well below the filler cap so whether that had an effect I don't know.

Does anyone know if the spark plug below the filler cap is cylinder 1 or 5 ?

One more job needs doing now - front right ABS sensor...

Also the front brakes are pretty bad for rust with quite a bit of vibration and noise when using them - unclear yet whether a bit of use will get them working properly or whether I'm up for new discs again for lack of use. The inner faces of the disk look somewhat pitted.

But at least I have a working spare car again, which I haven't had for over 3 months now.

[CitroJim]

That's a great result Simon and real progress The remaining jobs are not too bad to do... At least it's a front ABS sensor. It's the rear ones that are a bit devilish...

That little blanking cap on the back of the inlet manifold is definitely worth close scrutiny...

[Armidillo]

Simon, have you improved the filler cap seal? That will be the source of the oil in the plug well.

Replacement filler caps seem hard to come by, as are replacement sealing rings (at least in Oz). I have successfully replaced the cap sealing ring with a couple of O-rings of different diameters (so that one sits comfortably inside the other.

Cheers
Alec

PS - you were a great help when you lived in NZ and I was just getting into Xantiae. Sadly that era of Aussie Frogs disappeared in the great GoDaddy crash of 2010.

[xantia_v6]

In my experience, the V6 oil filler caps don't leak, but any oil spilt while topping up the oil disappears under the trim cover and fills the spark plug well.

[Mandrake]

Simon, have you improved the filler cap seal? That will be the source of the oil in the plug well.

Replacement filler caps seem hard to come by, as are replacement sealing rings (at least in Oz). I have successfully replaced the cap sealing ring with a couple of O-rings of different diameters (so that one sits comfortably inside the other.

Cheers
Alec

PS - you were a great help when you lived in NZ and I was just getting into Xantiae. Sadly that era of Aussie Frogs disappeared in the great GoDaddy crash of 2010.

In my experience, the V6 oil filler caps don't leak, but any oil spilt while topping up the oil disappears under the trim cover and fills the spark plug well.

On this car the filler cap itself isn't leaking, it's as you say - spilling any oil when pouring it in goes straight under the trim cover and into the spark plug well area.

From memory there is a rubber seal attached to the trim cover but the rubber is hard and the trim cover is somewhat warped with age so it doesn't seal anymore.

I've obviously been careless the last couple of times I've put oil in and spilled some, lesson for the future - always fill via a funnel.

Mind you brand new engine oil (as opposed to the dirty contaminated oil that leaks into the rear bank spark plug wells) should be a very good insulator so it probably wasn't causing an issue, but it's good to get it all cleaned and sorted out. Once I discovered it I couldn't just leave it there.

[Mandrake]

I've driven the Xantia three times since the repair, each time for long enough to get it fully warmed up and so far no coolant loss, so the new swirl pot is holding.

It also looks like the coil pack swap has (at least so far) solved the sudden loss of power / stalling issue that I've been seeing intermittently for a year or so which got suddenly much worse in the last few months, and there have been no engine fault codes set either. The engine seems to be performing quite a bit better and more consistently than it has been for a while.

The irony is if it's fixed now it means the NGK coil pack that I fitted brand new about 7 years ago trying to solve an intermittent low power issue has failed on me in that short length of time, (and from the fault codes and behaviour it seems to be an intermittent primary side open circuit in the 1/5 coil) and the original Sagem coil pack I've put back in is fine!!

Thinking back I suspect the intermittent low power I was first seeing all those years ago was really caused by the hydraulic lifter clatter triggering the knock sensor issue that I discussed recently...which causes the timing to get pulled back.

And the solution to that is to just change the oil religiously on schedule and use a slightly thicker than normal oil to compensate for the wear in the lifters, as the thicker oil will help them pressurise better when they are a little worn.

When I went from 5w-40 to 10w-40 oil a number of years ago the intermittent power loss issue mostly went away and the lifters became a lot quieter. They still do get a little noisy when the engine is fully hot though, would it be worth trying 10w-50 oil next time, (if such a thing is available) which would increase the thickness at 100 degrees a bit as well ?

[CitroJim]

Excellent Simon Pleased to see good progress

[Armidillo]

Simon there certainly is such a thing as 10W50 oil - it's what I use in my XM (which also uses the ES9J4 engine). It is in fact the grade recommended by Penrite (an Australian company) for the Xantia V6 and Peugeot D8 SV as well as for the late model V6 XMs and 605s. 10W40 is only recommended for the Peugeot D9 SV (ES9J4S motor), which appeared c. yr 2000.

As to what you can get in the UK, that may be another story. A quick look suggests several brands available at Halfords and online stores like AutopartsPro, but it all seems to be marketed as for racing or for mnotorbikes (4-stroke). I suppose it's a normal thing for us because of our hotter climate. Twenty years ago, any car I owned just use 20W50 mineral oil (I'd never heard of synthetic oil).

[myglaren]

Opie Oils have it.
Here.

[Mandrake]

Opie Oils have it.
Here.

Yeah - I had a quick look on Opie oils after posting and noticed the "Total Quartz Racing 10w-50 Engine Oil" which looks like a good candidate for the next oil change.

[Mandrake]

Simon there certainly is such a thing as 10W50 oil - it's what I use in my XM (which also uses the ES9J4 engine). It is in fact the grade recommended by Penrite (an Australian company) for the Xantia V6 and Peugeot D8 SV as well as for the late model V6 XMs and 605s. 10W40 is only recommended for the Peugeot D9 SV (ES9J4S motor), which appeared c. yr 2000.

That's interesting that 10w-50 is recommended for the ES9J4 in Australia, and it gives me some confidence that 10w-50 would not be harmful for the engine.

Here in the UK 5w-40 and 10w-40 are the recommended oils for the ES9J4, (at least its in the Xantia V6 owners manual) presumably due to the colder climate.

However the climate should really only affect the first number - which is the viscosity of the oil when cold - the minimum oil temperature would be affected a lot by ambient temperatures, as the oil will eventually reach ambient when the car is parked for long enough.

However the second number is the viscosity of the oil at 100 degrees C, eg when the engine is hot, and this temperature should not be significantly different for different climates because the engine cooling system will be trying to keep the engine block at around 95C regardless of whether the ambient temperature is -10C or +40C...

So as far as I can see the second number shouldn't vary with different markets.

[xantia_v6]

The oil temperature of a hot engine does vary significantly with ambient temperature. I think that this is due to the oil cooling being mainly by airflow past the sump ( no oil cooler on ES9JS fitted to Citroen).
I have always used 10W40 in these engines.

[DHallworth]

During COVID I started the XM up and noticed that it was running on 5 cylinders. Thankfully it was in the workshop so it was dark enough to see the problem as soon as I removed the engine cover.

I then got the coil pack from the Activa which despite running on all 6 had been a bit short of torque when pulling off at idle.

Again... in the darkness of the workshop all became apparent! Neither coils had cracked or broken plastic but both were arcing in the same place!

1 video of each coil pack is merged into 1 here:



I ordered 2 new replacement coils and replaced them on both cars and they've not given any problems since... not that they've been driven anywhere right enough! Although I am thinking of having the XM MOT'd this week.

[xantia_v6]

The current was finding it easier to jump that air gap than the spark plug. I would suggest that you check or replace the ignition leads. I know that is a pain.