2020 Berlingo Ad Blue Warning

[LondonDriver]

Hi all,

first time poster but find these forums very useful as a lurker leaning on historical answers. That said, now I do need the advice of the community. Below a synopsis of my scenario:

Car: Citroen Berlingo XL 7-Seater MPV Jan 2020 (69 Plate)
Purchased: Second hand from Citroen Stellantis Dealership in Salisbury December 2022
Mileage: 60k
Warranty: 12 Months Spoticar with additional extension to 3 years (to the tune of £500 for the "peace of mind")
Issue: AdBlue warning light despite AdBlue being fully topped up and Engine Repair Warning on dash. "Emissions Fault: Starting Impossible on 600 miles"

Citroen Service Centre:

Calls me once to tell me the NOX sensor is worn and needs replacing at £1,926.92. I requested email confirmation of itemised quote, which both employees who I spoke with seemed reluctant to do.
Calls me again following day to confirm that spoticar insurance will not cover as wear and tear (begging the question what does the insurance cover?), but this time saying the DPF filter needs replacing. I'm informed NOX and DPF filter are the same thing but when I speak to my local garage they tell me they interrelate but they would not replace the DPF filter (instead have it cleaned) as this is more a symptom on an underlying issue needs investigating.
Email finally arrives saying that the "denox Cat is worn and will require a new CAT/DPF".

Question:
How best to deal with this? What are the most effective methods to pushback on Citroen and Spoticar with this issue?

I am pretty miffed with Spoticar claiming no coverage on wear and tear, which for the likes of brakes, tyres etc. or a >100k mileage car I completely understand. Also the method of how to claim is ridiculous the customer service rep does it on your behalf and has no interest (I learnt this after on a separate occasion Citroen had me call Spoticar to the tune of 2h spent on calls)

I am inclined to simply pick up the car and take it to my local garage, bite the bullet and write off the supposed warranty.

Edited to clean up typos and some grammar, due to "furious unfiltered speed typing"

[GiveMeABreak]

I'm very surprised to hear this form a 'dealer'

NOx and DPF are nothing to do with each other.
The NOx sensor is part of the SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction) system that uses the Adblue to treat the NOx and turn it into water.
The DPF treats the particulate matter and has zero to do with the SCR systems nor Adblue. In any case the DPF should NOT need replacing at 60k miles - it should be nearly double that.
NOx sensor is not wear and tear IMO and should be covered, see warranty here: (https://www.citroen.co.uk/content/dam/c ... 1638368796)

A NOx sensor is about £400 from the dealer to buy without fitting or diagnostics time. So that figure is wildly concerning.
I would query the dealership to be honest as they don't seem to know what they are on about and I would speak to the Service Manager about the competency of whoever spouted that rubbish.

I would also contact the warranty company directly as this has happened many times where they override the dealership (I've done this) - often it is down to their explanation - and make the warranty company aware that a DPF is a service item - but is designed to last about 120k miles! The fact that they don't seem to know what a NOx sensor is for is also concerning.

[LondonDriver]

Thank you @GiveMeBreak - sadly this is the second time I have had utterly incompetent Citroen employees. In one instance I even overheard the manager training a new staff on how, in his words "white lies", to tell clients.

In the meantime, I spoke with the warranty provider who told me that my they would authorize my local garage - who's judgement I trust - to review the diagnostic, a welcome development.

Interesting to note about overruling and very helpful.

Overall, a huge thank you, your reply has given me confidence that I am once again dealing with incompetence and the best approach is to get it to another garage (and claim under warranty there).

[LondonDriver]

fyi I have just been told Citroen is not allowed to give me the diagnostics report but can give me the fault code:
P16D0 07

[PaulC5]

P16DO does not seem to be anything to do with a NOx sensor and may be related to the flywheel, below is copied from another topic at the end of page 1. The NOx sensor on our Cactus failed just before the 3 year warranty expired and Citroen replaced that without any charge to us, so I would not expect you to have to pay for a new NOx sensor. The fault code for that did not bring up a countdown mileage but I have seen this message in posts that have needed the adblue tank replacing when topping up the adblue did not work. I would be looking for another dealer since this one appears to not know what is wrong or are trying to get a lot of money out of you.
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Ok so P16D0 is recorded by the engine management ECU when there is a very significant engine under-revving or stalling caused by the driver using the double damping flywheel in an abnormal way. It is by design and the 'fix' is to clear the fault code - and drive properly of course :
viewtopic.php?t=64451

[GiveMeABreak]

Here's the actual fault code description:

Fault Code:	P16D0 07
Description of Fault:	Damage to the double damping flywheel: Mechanic malfunction. Detection of resonance of the double damping flywheel.
Conditions for Fault to clear:	After switching the ignition off and then back on
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:	Absence of automatic stopping of the internal combustion engine
Symptoms:	Engine hesitating, cutting out Starting problem Problem with automatic restarting of the internal combustion engine Absence of automatic stopping of the internal combustion engine Malfunction of the Stop and Start switch or its LED
Suspect Areas:	Double damping flywheel (DVA) Engine speed sensor target

[wheeler]

I'd ask someone to explain to you how exactly a NOx sensor can wear?

[LondonDriver]

P16DO does not seem to be anything to do with a NOx sensor and may be related to the flywheel, below is copied from another topic at the end of page 1. The NOx sensor on our Cactus failed just before the 3 year warranty expired and Citroen replaced that without any charge to us, so I would not expect you to have to pay for a new NOx sensor. The fault code for that did not bring up a countdown mileage but I have seen this message in posts that have needed the adblue tank replacing when topping up the adblue did not work. I would be looking for another dealer since this one appears to not know what is wrong or are trying to get a lot of money out of you.
---------------
Ok so P16D0 is recorded by the engine management ECU when there is a very significant engine under-revving or stalling caused by the driver using the double damping flywheel in an abnormal way. It is by design and the 'fix' is to clear the fault code - and drive properly of course :
viewtopic.php?t=64451

What does driver using the double damping flywheel in an abnormal way in reality? Stalling too often? Foot on the clutch too long at traffic lights (I don't sit in neutral)?

again huge thank you to all of you.

[Paul-R]

I would guess driving at too low a speed in a gear, stalling the engine by lifting the clutch pedal too quickly and things like that.

Incidentally you shouldn't sit at traffic lights with your foot on the clutch as this will put extra wear on the clutch release bearing. It's best to do what you don't do, that is put the gearbox into neutral.