1.6 e-hdi camshaft position sensor

[c16rkc]

poor little Jelly bean has broken down...

I have scanned using Dogbox and I have four codes:

- P0341
- P0016
- P0017
- P0344

A bit of googling and it looks like the top three suggest an issue with either the Camshaft, or Crankchaft position sensors - but the last one in particular points to the Camshaft position sensor.

I wanted to take a look, but I have no idea where it is... and oddly google does not want to tell me today either

Does anyone on here know please?

[RichardW]

It's behind the camshaft sprocket somewhere - however cam shaft sensor is only used at start up to check cam / crank synch....my guess is it's broken it's cambelt.

[c16rkc]

Broken cambelt.... Oh dear I hope not!...

How can I check?

When I turn try to start the car, the engine does not seem to try and start. Odd times I get a sound like it's trying to fire for a second or so, then it all I head is the turnover.

[wheeler]

Yes if it cut out whilst driving i would think it unlikely the cam sensor has failed.
You may be able to see the camshaft through the oil filler cap & see if it’s turning when you crank the engine. Failing that pull top cover off.

[GiveMeABreak]

poor little Jelly bean has broken down...

I have scanned using Dogbox and I have four codes:

- P0341
- P0016
- P0017
- P0344

A bit of googling and it looks like the top three suggest an issue with either the Camshaft, or Crankchaft position sensors - but the last one in particular points to the Camshaft position sensor.

I wanted to take a look, but I have no idea where it is... and oddly google does not want to tell me today either

Does anyone on here know please?

Chris - did you actually run the global test first and can you confirm that previously on connection of Diagbox, the vehicle selection was automatic and that you have not selected vehicle and engine manually? Reason being all bar the first fault code are not listed for this specific engine as faults. They are only listed on the revised DW10CTED4 engine?

Fault Code:	P0341
Description of Fault:	Camshaft signal: Loss of synchronisation. No synchronisation for 2 to 3 engine revolutions between the engine speed sensor and the camshaft sensor for making the 1st injection.
Conditions for Fault to clear:	Under starter
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:
Symptoms:	Starting problem
Suspect Areas:	Engine speed sensor target Engine speed sensor Camshaft sensor Timing Electrical harness Connector

[c16rkc]

Yes if it cut out whilst driving i would think it unlikely the cam sensor has failed.
You may be able to see the camshaft through the oil filler cap & see if it’s turning when you crank the engine. Failing that pull top cover off.

Thanks yes that's what happened. I was driving and then the power seemed to have gone... it seemed to be turning over but there seemed to be no power. Then it cut out and would not start... when I crack it I can see movement of the engine, but it does not seem to be trying to fire up. I assumed something like a fuel pump would be the cause, but I am guessing that would be a "low fuel pressure" error.

I took the oil cap off, as I remember on my old Jag that was a way to see inside, but on this engine all I see is plastic as there seems to be a protective guide that stops you looking in. But the engine does seem to be moving when I crank it. I managed to take a couple of screws off the cambelt cover, and it looks tight; but I suppose it could be loose elsewhere I guess...

I'm not what you would call "competant" when it comes to car engines... so taking the cover off is not something I am familiar with

I dabble... and was hoping this might be something I could diagnose and fix myself.

[c16rkc]

poor little Jelly bean has broken down...

I have scanned using Dogbox and I have four codes:

- P0341
- P0016
- P0017
- P0344

A bit of googling and it looks like the top three suggest an issue with either the Camshaft, or Crankchaft position sensors - but the last one in particular points to the Camshaft position sensor.

I wanted to take a look, but I have no idea where it is... and oddly google does not want to tell me today either

Does anyone on here know please?

Chris - did you actually run the global test first and can you confirm that previously on connection of Diagbox, the vehicle selection was automatic and that you have not selected vehicle and engine manually? Reason being all bar the first fault code are not listed for this specific engine as faults. They are only listed on the revised DW10CTED4 engine?

Fault Code:	P0341
Description of Fault:	Camshaft signal: Loss of synchronisation. No synchronisation for 2 to 3 engine revolutions between the engine speed sensor and the camshaft sensor for making the 1st injection.
Conditions for Fault to clear:	Under starter
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:
Symptoms:	Starting problem
Suspect Areas:	Engine speed sensor target Engine speed sensor Camshaft sensor Timing Electrical harness Connector

Thanks Mark.

I plugged in and let the computer automatically determine the car/engine type, I did not select anything manually. But.... I'll give it another go!

It does not give any information for the last 3 codes, it says "Not defined", so that might suggest they do not belong to the car.

[c16rkc]

Sooo... as seems to regularly be the case.... Mark was on to something

I had plugged in my PC, and not noticed that I had continued a session from my Citroen C5, and so even though it did genuinely scan the C3, it thought it was scanning a C5...

So I started again, and this time I got different codes:

So assuming the first and last do not mean much, that's now P0341, P0016, P0017, and P0344.

I do hope poor Jelly bean is not dead - despite it being the smallest car on the driveway it's everyone's favourite. The boys always ask "can we go in the bean car" when we go places

I almost feel a bit tearful at the idea we won't have the bean car anymore...

So while I do apologise for you all having to offer advice to a complete novice like me... is there anyway that someone who is not afraid to undo things and have a go, but knows little to zero about engines, might be able to work out what this might be... and in particular if it's a snapped cambelt?

[GiveMeABreak]

I actually thought this was for the C5 Chis!

If you have the VIN for the C3 I'll run the codes against that.

[c16rkc]

I think I have the answer... I found this video:



That's not exactly what Jelly bean sounds like, but it's similar enough that I think that's my answer.

The other thing I did was loosen the top of the cam belt cover, and though it is in place and tight, I put a finger mark on it, and cranked again. The mark did not move.... so I think that's pretty much saying the belt is not moving and therefore must be snapped further down.

I actually feel a bit guilty, as I knew Jelly bean needed a new CAM belt, and, deciding to do the C5 CAM belt first, I was putting it off due to all the other stuff we had going on.

I killed poor Jelly bean through neglect

[c16rkc]

I actually thought this was for the C5 Chis!

If you have the VIN for the C3 I'll run the codes against that.

Thanks Mark,

Jelly bean's VIN is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

Although I think I might be too late to do much good now...

[Hell Razor5543]

You may be OK. The HDi engines use rocker arms that are 'sacrificial', so if the timing belt jumps or fails it is the rocker arms that take damage, and (hopefully) not anything else. My current C5 had the cam belt jump a tooth, which broke two rocker arms and bent three more. I got all of the rocker arms, hydraulic tappets, timing chain and the timing belt replaced. My C5 has twin camshafts, which is why I got the timing chain replaced, in case it had taken damage as well. She is running nicely again.

[GiveMeABreak]

Just in case...

Fault Code:	P0341
Description of Fault:	Measurement of the camshaft position: Camshaft signal not available. Absence of synchronisation between the engine speed sensor and the camshaft sensor to carry out the first injection.
Conditions for Fault to clear:	10 successive starts
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:	-
Symptoms:	Starting problem Absence of automatic stopping of the internal combustion engine (Vehicle equipped with "stop and start")
Suspect Areas:	Camshaft position sensor Camshaft pulley Electrical harness Connectors

Fault Code:	P0016
Description of Fault:	Synchronisation: Incoherence between the information from the engine speed sensor and the camshaft sensor. Difference of more than 24 ° between the measurement of the engine speed and the measurement of the camshaft position for 5 detections.
Conditions for Fault to clear:	Difference of less than 24 ° between the measurement of the engine speed and the measurement of the camshaft position.
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:	Deactivation of the request for regeneration of the particle filter from the diagnostic tool
Symptoms:	Starting problem Absence of automatic stopping of the internal combustion engine (Vehicle equipped with "stop and start")
Suspect Areas:	Camshaft position sensor Camshaft pulley Engine speed sensor Engine speed sensor target Timing belt Electrical harnesses Connectors

Fault Code:	P0017
Description of Fault:	Starting monitoring: Synchronisation time too long. Synchronisation time of more than 1,6 s between the camshaft sensor and the engine speed sensor (Coolant temperature of -30°C). Synchronisation time of more than 0,9 s between the camshaft sensor and the engine speed sensor (Coolant temperature of 0°C).
Conditions for Fault to clear:	10 successive starts
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:	-
Symptoms:	Starting problem Absence of automatic stopping of the internal combustion engine (Vehicle equipped with "stop and start")
Suspect Areas:	Camshaft position sensor Camshaft pulley Engine speed sensor Engine speed sensor target Timing belt Electrical harnesses Connectors

Fault Code:	P0344
Description of Fault:	Measurement of the camshaft position: Signal incorrect. The camshaft sensor is sending an incorrect or intermittent signal.
Conditions for Fault to clear:	-
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:	-
Symptoms:	Starting problem Absence of automatic stopping of the internal combustion engine (Vehicle equipped with "stop and start")
Suspect Areas:	Camshaft position sensor Electrical harness Connectors

[c16rkc]

You may be OK. The HDi engines use rocker arms that are 'sacrificial', so if the timing belt jumps or fails it is the rocker arms that take damage, and (hopefully) not anything else. My current C5 had the cam belt jump a tooth, which broke two rocker arms and bent three more. I got all of the rocker arms, hydraulic tappets, timing chain and the timing belt replaced. My C5 has twin camshafts, which is why I got the timing chain replaced, in case it had taken damage as well. She is running nicely again.

I hope you are right, will be nice if Jelly bean is salvageable; as I do not relish the idea of telling the boys I'm a bean car murderer!

[c16rkc]

Just in case...

Fault Code:	P0341
Description of Fault:	Measurement of the camshaft position: Camshaft signal not available. Absence of synchronisation between the engine speed sensor and the camshaft sensor to carry out the first injection.
Conditions for Fault to clear:	10 successive starts
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:	-
Symptoms:	Starting problem Absence of automatic stopping of the internal combustion engine (Vehicle equipped with "stop and start")
Suspect Areas:	Camshaft position sensor Camshaft pulley Electrical harness Connectors

Fault Code:	P0016
Description of Fault:	Synchronisation: Incoherence between the information from the engine speed sensor and the camshaft sensor. Difference of more than 24 ° between the measurement of the engine speed and the measurement of the camshaft position for 5 detections.
Conditions for Fault to clear:	Difference of less than 24 ° between the measurement of the engine speed and the measurement of the camshaft position.
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:	Deactivation of the request for regeneration of the particle filter from the diagnostic tool
Symptoms:	Starting problem Absence of automatic stopping of the internal combustion engine (Vehicle equipped with "stop and start")
Suspect Areas:	Camshaft position sensor Camshaft pulley Engine speed sensor Engine speed sensor target Timing belt Electrical harnesses Connectors

Fault Code:	P0017
Description of Fault:	Starting monitoring: Synchronisation time too long. Synchronisation time of more than 1,6 s between the camshaft sensor and the engine speed sensor (Coolant temperature of -30°C). Synchronisation time of more than 0,9 s between the camshaft sensor and the engine speed sensor (Coolant temperature of 0°C).
Conditions for Fault to clear:	10 successive starts
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:	-
Symptoms:	Starting problem Absence of automatic stopping of the internal combustion engine (Vehicle equipped with "stop and start")
Suspect Areas:	Camshaft position sensor Camshaft pulley Engine speed sensor Engine speed sensor target Timing belt Electrical harnesses Connectors

Fault Code:	P0344
Description of Fault:	Measurement of the camshaft position: Signal incorrect. The camshaft sensor is sending an incorrect or intermittent signal.
Conditions for Fault to clear:	-
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:	-
Symptoms:	Starting problem Absence of automatic stopping of the internal combustion engine (Vehicle equipped with "stop and start")
Suspect Areas:	Camshaft position sensor Electrical harness Connectors

Thanks Mark... though I have to confess I'm not really advanced enough to know what to do with the extra info. I think I'm going to have to tow Jelly bean to the closest garage and let them tell me what they think the best course of action is. From what I have experienced with our cars lately I'll be pleased if I get change from £1,000...