C3 Fault code P5FF and P0606

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Ddclutch
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C3 Fault code P5FF and P0606

Post by Ddclutch »

2011 C3 Picasso, 51,000 miles, non working power steering.
I have checked the easy stuff: fuse, loose connections, battery. Battery was at 12.2v so I put it on charge for 4 hours and got it to a stable 12.7v. Is this enough? When running I get 13.6v

Dash shows Power Steering Fault

OBD11 check returns P0606 Permanent Fault which I believe means an ECU fault, but which one? Could this just be the PS module attached to the PS pump?

I also get code P5FF which is 'Unexpected reinitialisation of the BSI interface'. (Built In Systems)

Doing a live system scan (engine running) I get the data for the Power Steering. It responds with varying input torque as I move the steering wheel plus and minus figures as expected. It shows Zero Amps (cos the motor isnt working) and 3v for supply. THIS VOLTAGE SEEMS LOW TO ME. Is this a clue?

What do I do next?

Please!
Ddclutch
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Re: C3 Fault code P5FF and P0606

Post by Ddclutch »

No responses?
I know this steering issue is a well worn subject but this is now an older car at plus 12 years and I am getting no dealer support. What I am trying to tell is if both the motor and its ECU module are faulty, or just one of them which would be cheaper to replace.
The two codes, P0606 (ECU) fault and the odd P5FF both seem to be related to the ECU. I am getting no code specifically for the PAS motor. Could this be because the P5FF fault on the module is preventing OBD11 from accessing the motor itself? Or is it also still possibly a poor cable connection to the module.

The earlier question about the low 3v is ok. I think it is showing the CAN voltage, not the supply to the motor.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C3 Fault code P5FF and P0606

Post by GiveMeABreak »

First this is an extremely busy Forum with hundreds of posts a day to deal with, so it may take a while to get around to replying to your individual post.

Next, pop your VIN up (please post your VIN in full without spaces - it will be automatically masked from public view after submitting your post & will only be visible to staff) along with any and ALL fault codes that you have.

Ignore the PF55 BSI fault for now - that is a common one. Your issue is likely to be the electric power steering unit itself - as there is no pump at all, they are entirely electrically driven from the battery.

The battery voltage when the car is running still seems low, you should be getting at least 14.3 to 14.7 volts when the vehicle is running.

Anyway once I have the info I'll take a look at the faults.
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Marc
Ddclutch
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Re: C3 Fault code P5FF and P0606

Post by Ddclutch »

Thanks for replying Marc, I wasnt grumbling, just surprised. My message was moderator approved and posted very quickly.
Apart from the VIN number:
VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

I think I included all the information. The power steering doesnt work, but everything else is normal. it has failed twice before but corrected itself when restarted. There are no other fault codes, all the other systems test and pass ok. There are just those two error codes PO606 and P5FF
The car is over 12 now, though only 51k miles, but Citroen arent interested in a Goodwill repair. Just needing to check for any other advice before lashing out on a new motor unit!
Ddclutch
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Re: C3 Fault code P5FF and P0606

Post by Ddclutch »

Sorry, that second code is F5FF. Not a P code at all.
"Unexpected reinitialisation of BIS interface". If I clear codes and then recheck, it reappears.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C3 Fault code P5FF and P0606

Post by GiveMeABreak »

All new initial member posts are moderated for anti-spam, before being published on the Forum. Responses depend on the members though :wink:

Unfortunately the fault codes are non-characterised which means there isn't enough information or data for a more detailed analysis - probably because of the nature of the fault. If the ECU is faulty or the data communication from / to the ECU is corrupt or missing, then that's why there won't be any more detail.


The P0606 fault relates to the Engine Management ECU:
Fault Code: P0606
Description of Fault: ECU internal fault: Not characterised. Fault internal to the engine management ECU.

Fault will be triggered when at least one of the following conditions must are fulfilled:
- Engine management ECU in partial triggering phase
- Engine management ECU in main triggering phase
- Engine ECU in becoming dormant phase
Conditions for Fault to clear:
  • Communication on the network internal to the ECU has to be correct again
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active: -
Symptoms:
  • Warning lamp MIL
Suspect Areas:
  • Engine ECU
The F5FF fault from the BSI is again uncharacterised, so no further detail available.

There may well be more faults, however, generic OBDII scanners are not able to read the constructor-specific faults, so there may be other codes that relate to the power steering ECU that are not being reported. Ideally it should be read with Diagbox to ensure all faults are reported. So I can't help much with this as it stands.
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Marc
Ddclutch
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Re: C3 Fault code P5FF and P0606

Post by Ddclutch »

Thanks Marc,
a couple of oddities there:
Although I get the P0606 code, the MIL engine management warning light goes out a few seconds after starting as normal. This doesnt seem to accord with your table entry for Symptoms.
The car runs perfectly and doesnt appear to have any other faults when driven.

I am using an Alcatel code reader, not a cheepy one, running software called MaxiDiag. I am used to using it on VW /Audi cars for which it drills down to quite detailed and specific faults. It has settings for Citroen and reads the VIN code and selects the correct vehicle. More than that I don't know, but I wonder if this F5FF ' reinitialisation' is aborting or blocking the scan going any further which is why no other PAS codes are presenting (just dash warning) despite the very obvious fault!
The other possibility is that the less than optimum battery is causing issues.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C3 Fault code P5FF and P0606

Post by GiveMeABreak »

That's just saying that there MIL will illuminate when the fault is present. I put it in symptoms, but that's all it means. There are no downgrade modes as you can see.

The BSI fault is a common one and I shouldn't worry about it. If there was a more serious fault you'd be getting specific codes with some meaning. I can't speak for your specific fault code reader, but it's well known that non-bespoke systems cannot always read ALL the constructor codes. It depends on the hardware and software capabilities, but I thought it worth a mention.
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Marc
Ddclutch
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Re: C3 Fault code P5FF and P0606

Post by Ddclutch »

Thanks again. You had me doubting so I have just re run the diagnostics. The P0606 code comes up doing a general systems scan. If I select specific systems and go through them one by one the engine ECU is clear. No fault (and no MIL, obviously) so that isnt relating to the Engine ECU, and as I said, the engine runs fine.
The only system reporting a fault at the systems level is power steering. It reports that F5FF code and expanding that it shows the re-initialisation message with the BIS interface.

That seems as far as I can get with this code reader.
Thanks for trying to help.
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Re: C3 Fault code P5FF and P0606

Post by Stewart(oily) »

My C2 can exhibit a range of odd behaviours if the battery is even slightly low, ghost wipers moving to vertical position when parked, and only working at fastest speed until the car has run for a few minutes,, power steering in and out, overheat and low coolant warnings on startup, all of these disappear after giving a really good overnight charge to the battery, and having a good quality battery too, my vehicle has the electric cabin heater which I think beats the battery up in the winter months, I was a little surprised not to see battery voltage over 14 volts when your engine is running too. re your other post about subframe removal, I would not be put off, it looks like a big lump of metal but usually is straightforward enough.
BXs since 1993 built 1.9 TZD turbo, got a S2 Xantia estate, brilliant car! 2013, Xantia HDI LX 110 2000 new car with 122,000, l C2 HDI Rusty rocket, C3 Picasso HDI new to me.
Ddclutch
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Re: C3 Fault code P5FF and P0606

Post by Ddclutch »

Thanks Stewart. I have moved on a bit from my last message. I tried an overnight charge. No better. I then borrowed an almost new, and fully charged battery, and again no better. Apart from attempted code diagnostics I've checked and inspected all the connections. I then removed the motor. Not easy as the electronics module is an integral part on this model, and makes it a bulky lump! I could unbolt it from the rack but all the potential exit routes are blocked by fixed components. I spent a long time trying! But in tgevend I didnt need to disturb the subframe.
The thick ARB is a complex twisty shape and by disconnecting the drop links and moving the bar ends upwards in the wheel wells the rear section obstructing the exit route pivoted downwards. This gave just enough clearance to remove it quite easily via the tunnel and past the exhaust.
Easy when you know how, so perhaps this might help someone in the future.
Ddclutch
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Re: C3 Fault code P5FF and P0606

Post by Ddclutch »

The trick with the ARB made it a relatively straightforward job to remove the power steering motor which I then sent away for refurbishing. Replacement was even easier as by then I knew what I was doing and also had no seized bolts to deal with. All back together and power steering now back fully working. It even cleared all of the fault codes on its own!