Hill start assist

[Peugeotunaz]

Hi all,
Hoping someone super knowledgeable here can help me. I've tried various forums but no luck so far.
I have 2014 peugeot 208 Roland Garros 1.2vti. Car is very well equipped but missing hill assist.
I've tried coding it using diagbox v7.57 as that's last known version for offline telecoding but no joy. It fails every time. I was looking through electrical diagram for ESP and it shows 2 relays wired in the engine bay fuse box. I'm missing those 2 relays so tried replicating it but couldn't get any power to ESP module. I'm getting 12v from wire I just put in place from bsi when it's active.
Anyone knows how this system works?
Anyone with working hill assist can physically check if they have relay 2, 3 or both present in engine bay fuse box? And if their car has stop/start? Mine doesn't have stop start but I suspect one relay might be linked to stop/start.

[GiveMeABreak]

Pop your VIN up (please post your VIN in full without spaces - it will be automatically masked from public view after submitting your post & will only be visible to staff), so I can see what you have. Later cars with manual handbrake like mine perform this using the ESP to activate the brakes for a few seconds.

The handbook for 2013-14 models does mention it, so it should be there. Remember it only works on a sufficient gradient.

[Peugeotunaz]

Hi Marc,
Thank you for your reply. Vin is VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
It definitely does not hold brakes as it is. If you have access to electrical diagram you'll see 2 relays in the diagram in fusebox. I don't actually have them for whatever reason. I can post the diagram if you want me to.
Umar

[GiveMeABreak]

I have the diagram.

Looking at the 2 Relays you mention these are

BR23B: Output F3 of engine fusebox relay R2
BR24B: Output F4 of engine fusebox relay R3

F23 is designated 40 Amp and is for the ABS / ESP ECU
F24 is designated 20 Amp and is for the ABS / ESP ECU

Pin 1 of the 38 Way Black Connector on the ESP ECU (7800) is for Supply (+): Pump electric motor.
Pin 25 of the 38 Way Black Connector on the ESP ECU (7800) is for Supply (+): ESP ECU and electrovalves

So I'm not sure what is going on there as if these relays are missing I can't see how any of the ESP or ABS functions are working??? as they supply power to the electrovalves and the motor itself.

Also, the BFRM (Engine Relay & Fuse Box) is not sold separately from Peugeot, but comes with the main engine harness!

Has it been replaced by somebody previously who 'wired' in an incorrect fusebox?

[Peugeotunaz]

Sorry forgot to mention supply is connected to pin 35 and 44 which are fuses basically so it's directly connected. I was missing wire (7058) from bsi which I run through.
No sign of tinkering with fuse box prior to me. As little tabs underneath snap if you try to open it up.
So it looks like relays were missed in the assembly process.

[GiveMeABreak]

These connections 35 & 44 aren't shown above for the ESP connections to the BFRM and neither are they shown there for ABS only. So I don't know what to suggest.

[Peugeotunaz]

I'm completely lost too. Diagram shows 2 relays yet supply is directly connected.
I'm assuming relays have something to do with hill assist because of weird setup.
When I connected them in setup like above they didn't provide any power to ESP. Maybe relays are bad?
They were both reading around 96-100 ohms of resistance.

[GiveMeABreak]

I can't see why you would need to change anything in the ESP module as this is supposed to be a standard feature of the system and should be factory configured. Something is not adding up here, unless some other ESP / BSI configuration has been changed previously that has caused it not to function - hard to say.

However, you can telecode past this version, I have done so on many occasions with my C5 X7 using V7.65, but it depends on the vehicle as to what you can and can't do as this was a gradual process of moving over to online telecoding.

[Peugeotunaz]

BSI coding is saved to hold brakes for 2 seconds. Esp coding is saved as without hill assist and won't let me change it to with hill assist.
Why I'm questioning relays you might ask?
Well that's the only thing controlled by BSI otherwise bsi has no control over esp as power is directly connected. I think it uses combination of relays to interrupt power or something for hill assist. Just my wild theory.

[GiveMeABreak]

All the ESP functions are handled by the ESP ECU. The BSI can be updated directly from the ESP ECU - in other words some ECUs can be configured at the ECU level or the BSI level - the info is duplicated.

It's also well known that some devices like the ESP ECU won't allow configuration in offline mode (they go into 'Secure Mode') , so you may have to get a dealer to look at it for you.

[Peugeotunaz]

From reading posts on various forums looks like peugeot no longer let you do manual telecoding of ESP module.
I have a spare ESP module sitting around. I wanted to experiment on it.
Is there a way to virginise it like you would do a BSI unit. And then code everything like new part? I'm thinking maybe that way you can do it as with Hill assist.
If it still didn't work then it's clearly relays which are missing their part.

[GiveMeABreak]

I doubt that very much as these are pre-configured with specific software.

I just can't see why those relays are missing and if not physically removed by somebody, I can only assume they were never fitted on this model - but that's just speculation.

[Peugeotunaz]

I'm very confident they were never fitted despite being shown on diagram and I suspect that might be 1 the reasons it won't let me change hill assist settings.
The reason I suspect they were never fitted in first place is because there's no wiring underneath for relays and missing wire from BSI.
On a separate note I actually got used abs pump and module from another peugeot 208 which didn't have same settings as mine. I managed to change everything but hill assist so looks like you can programme it. That's the reason I'm digging deep into relay function. Maybe hill hold function is controlled by the means of relays delaying power for 2 seconds?
And when I try coding, it checks for certain responses from different parts of ESP module and if conditions are not right it fails to code?

[GiveMeABreak]

I can't see that as the relays appear to do a lot more than that - but we never get that level of internal component detail unfortunately.

I can't see it being that complicated needing separate relays.

The software just has to command the brakes to be applied for a few seconds. No more difficult than controlling the individual wheels when using ABS or ESP correction systems.