Persuade me not to replace our C5 3.0hdi X7 tourer with a CLS 350D shooting brake

[Jay-Bruce]

I've had our fully optioned C5 X7 3.0hdi Exclusive tourer for four and a half years now, and I'm getting an itch to replace it with something younger, and lower mileage, and I keep looking at Mercedes CLS350D shooting break. But I know the C5 has a certain je ne sais quoi, especially as it is a Citroen equivalent of a unicorn, being a 3.0hdi exclusive, with a panoramic glass roof, "Adriatic" 19's, full leather in the rarer cream colour etc. That's been lavished on with things like android headrest screens, LED sidelights and number plate lamps, discrete LED reverse lamps, updated "unofficial" satnav maps, etc. So I'd like to hear your reasons for keeping it, and why it's better than the merc would be, to dissuade me from talking to the accountant about making merc-sized monies available later this year.

Conversely, I'd also like to hear from anyone on here interested in acquiring this enthusiastically maintained unicorn. When I say enthusiastically maintained, if I tell you that last year alone, it got a full set of seven new Lizzarte spheres and a full set of 245/40/19 Michelin Pilot Sport 5 tyres, new front upper and lower balljoints on both sides, new N/S driveshaft, O/S driveshaft refurbed, ATF Change, new front discs and pagid pads, the rear brakes were done the year before, new front droplinks, new front wheel bearings, I'm sure you can join the dots? I'm aware that I need to sort the rear firmness regulator, and the rusty fore-to-aft suspension pipe, but before it's released to the market, the 23,000mile rust free regulator imported from Australia, which is on a shelf in my workshop will be fitted, and the fore-to-aft pipe will be replaced with cuni pipe and bespoke stainless fittings, which will in all honesty outlast the vehicle.

What's your thoughts, both for keeping the Citroen, and on it's potential replacement?

[mickthemaverick]

Absolutely no need to persuade you at all Jay - have you seen the Mercedes forum?

[bobins]

Having driven a few Mercs in the past, I have to say there's very few I've driven that make me think 'Hmmmm, this is a cut above.....' The older SLs are nice, and I've always got time for a Unimog, but yer average Merc doesn't do a lot for me. I understand it's got a three pointed star up front, but I'm more interested in comfort, practicalities, running and servicing costs etc. To me - the fact that it's a Merc doesn't mean it's cheap to run or comfortable to drive in, and comfort and cost is more important than image to me. But then I'm a grumpy old git

[GiveMeABreak]

They are a money pit - with things like the air suspension struts costing anything from upwards of £500 each. Just about everything on these is computer controlled, so say no more on that front.

Not one of Scotty's Favourites:

[Jay-Bruce]

Sorry Marc, but I'm disregarding that video because Scotty Kilmer's a bellend. He was criticizing the car for having low profile tyres which get chewed up when hit a kerb - like seriously? It's allegedly merc's fault a car gets damaged if the driver crashes it? He criticizes it for having numerous computer modules; like that's exclusively a "fault" of that model. He criticizes it for doing the modern trick where the windows drop a smidge when you open, and raise back into the door seal, as is seen in most modern frameless windows, even an early late nineties freelander tailgate does this.

Mick, I've not looked at any merc forums, what is wrong with them?

[mickthemaverick]

Mick, I've not looked at any merc forums, what is wrong with them?

Nothing wrong as such Jay, its simply that the couple I've looked at were very straight laced and seemed strictly tied to the technical side with no room for the type of expansive discussion we have on the FCF! Just a spur of the moment, tongue in cheek comment really from me but basically I was saying there is no fun in a Merc!!

[GiveMeABreak]

I know Scotty can be a bit like that - but he's done other videos on these too showing issues, but I think you've already convinced yourself you want a Merc, so best of luck with it Jay

[MattBLancs]

Sorry Marc, but I'm disregarding that video because Scotty Kilmer's a bellend. He was criticizing the car for having low profile tyres which get chewed up when hit a kerb - like seriously? It's allegedly merc's fault a car gets damaged if the driver crashes it? He criticizes it for having numerous computer modules; like that's exclusively a "fault" of that model. He criticizes it for doing the modern trick where the windows drop a smidge when you open, and raise back into the door seal, as is seen in most modern frameless windows, even an early late nineties freelander tailgate does this.

Mick, I've not looked at any merc forums, what is wrong with them?

You've got a higher bell end tolerance than I = I recognise the name and his picture, that's more than enough of one of his videos, can't stand him!


No strong opinion on the suggested Merc. Am sure it'll do some things better and am sure will have aspects in line with what, when new, would have been a much more expensive vehicle.

I'd also expect the running and parts/ maintenance costs also to be a step up from Citroen prices. Parts support should be better (sure I've heard you can get/order parts for sixties models from the dealership?? But at eye watering prices)

Cars are subjective, preferential things - buy what you (can afford and) fancy. It'll not be perfect, as nowt is, but if it's what you want then it'll generally be justification enough in itself to endures it's failings.

[admiral51]

Jay you can only do what you feel is right for you.
But something made your mind up on getting the C5 X7 and if it has come to the end for your ownership enjoy your new steed and feel the pain of watching someone else enjoying all your hard work on a cracking C5 X7.

Colin

[Jay-Bruce]

I've had the car for four and a half years now, and I know it's a bit of a unicorn, I looked long and weary to find one of this spec, but it's four and a half years, I've got an new car time itch. I'm currently weighing up the options, I could keep the X7, and go through my snagging list on it. Regardless of whether I'm keeping it or not, I'm making that cuni fore to aft pipe and fitting that super low mileage rear firmness regulator I bought for it. After that, if I'm keeping it I'd maybe rejiggle the spheres to give it the full on old school magic carpet floatyness I feel it's missing, get the alloys refurbed, get it resprayed, pull the carpets and door cards, apply a lot of sound deadening to muffle the tyre noise / sounds from bumps, remap it and do other tunery things that the forum grown-ups don't approve of #decat #dpfdelete etc, and that would address each and every niggle I've got with the car, bar the now dated feeling NG4 ICE, for which there is no aftermarket upgrade path, but even after all that work, it's still the same car, just incrementally improved, albeit to the best it could ever be.

On the other hand, I could put that workscope's time into paid for work, and use the money earned and the money saved from the extra days worked into another younger and more modern vehicle. Having been looking at finding suitable alternatives, originally I was contemplating a C5X, until I discovered they are made in china. The DS5 while it looks cool on the outside, it is a bit smaller than the X7, would be steel-spruing, and the pics I've seen on autotrader strike me as plasticy interior, the 508 SW is smaller than the X7, and I cannot think of anything else from PSA that would be a logical successor to the X7.

So, coming from a standpoint of being wildly in love with my BMW 635d, so much so that I don not want to upgrade to the younger 640d, I started looking at 3 series, but compared to the X7 they felt a bit of a downgrade in terms of trim / finish, so I started looking at 5 tourings, they looked a bit old manny / frumpy compared to the admittedly slinky C5 X7 tourer. That was BMW's offerings ruled out so I started looking at Audi's, but as my mate's just changed to his second A6, getting an A4 Avant would look like "wannabe" and an A6 Avant would be seen as an imitation, and if I went full mongo on the spec of the model I hunted for, as I did buying the C5, it could be interpreted as a bit of narcissistic one-upmanship, so context mugged off Audi.

Having went through Citroen, DS, Peugeot, BMW & Audi in my hunt for a successor to the X7, I came to look at mercs, and the GLA looked smaller than the X7, and more of a side-grade in terms of interior quality, the C & E both looked less sleek than the C5, with the E being the first rung on the merc ladder that appeared to offer better interior quality than the C5, but the CLS.... WOW! The feeling I had when I stumbled on that model reminded me of when I went from my 407 coupé to the 635d, it was like discovering the posh german car that inspired the cheaper french "tribute" motor, the CLS looks like it inspired the C5 tourer, similar stance, proportions etc, but merc over-engineered and a quality that arises from it being built to a much higher price point. Although not quite as strongly bowled over as I was by the "upgrade" I discovered when I changed my search criteria from 406 coupé to 407 coupé. Sadly that higher pricepoint when new, despite having depreciated by more than the new price of a fully optioned C5, still translates to eyewatering purchase prices, with prices ranging from £8k to nigh on £30k depending on spec, age, and mileage. Should be noted that I've seen CLS estates with as little as 33,000 miles.

I haven't fully made u my mind to go for the merc, there are a few things I'd miss in the X7, such as the panoramic roof, and looking at the mercs, the ones that have all the options I'd want are at the higher end of the price range outlined above. I've also got to remember this is primarily my wife's car, I'm lucky to do 1,000 miles a year in her car, two thousand max. And I also need to be mindful that she's not the kindest to cars, so do I really want to splurge the thick end of £30k on her car? By that note, do I even want to do all the upgrades to the C5 that I mentioned? The C5 is sitting on ~182,000 miles now, while I've been doing work that effectively negates that mileage, I must plan on that number getting bigger, for example, what mileage should I start looking at an engine rebore at? And as an interim option do I want to buy her a lower price point CLS? With the option to then trade-in the entry CLS against a guccier one in a few years? Flip side is I need to be cognizant of the fact that if all goes according to plan, our eldest will be driving his own car in two years time, and the youngest will be driving her own car in ~5 years time.

So yeah, replacing the C5 with a CLS shooting break is not a foregone conclusion, but it is a serious consideration.

[mickthemaverick]

Having read that summary Jay I couldn't help thinking " has he looked at the Volvo range?" Simply because build quality and comfort as well as safety for your wife would point me to at least see what they have to offer!

[Hell Razor5543]

A decade or so ago my manager got a Mercedes as a company car. He found it was way too firm and (because of that) uncomfortable. Unfortunately he was stuck with it for the duration of the lease. When he was able to choose another company car (before the Mercedes lease ran out) he went for an Audi. Another manager wanted to go for a Mercedes, but fortunately the first managers' Mercedes still had a few months to run, so he got it and found the same issue. He did not go for a Mercedes when he could choose, and that Mercedes went back to the lease company.

[mickthemaverick]

Something like this on ebay:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2020-Volvo-V ... 635-2958-0

[mickthemaverick]

How about this for a spec from the ebay V90 above ?

4225 GBP of factory fit extras inc. Surround View, Four Zone Climate Control, Heated Steering Wheel, Apple CarPlay, Blind Spot Assist, Electrically Heated Windscreen, Rear Privacy Glass, Power Child Locks, Android Auto, Panoramic Roof, Sensus Sat Nav, Digital Cockpit, Front and rear parking cameras, Active Lane Assist, Adaptive Cruise Control, Park Assist, Reversing Camera, Heated Leather Seats, Bluetooth Phone + Audio Streaming, Traffic Sign Recognition, DAB, Driver Memory Seat, B Pillar Ventilation, Wifi, Ambient interior lighting, Sunblinds, Keyless Entry, Front and Rear Parking Sensors, Driving Modes, Digital Climate Control, LED Daytime Running Lights, 19 inch alloys, Electric Boot, Keyless Start, Auto Headlights, Electric Folding Mirrors, USB Audio, Split Folding Rear Seats, Electric Adjustable Lumbar Support, Roof Rails, Multi-Function Steering Wheel, Electronic hand brake, Electric Windows, Speed Limiter, Start/Stop, High Beam Assistant, Voice Control, Collision warning system, Four Wheel Drive. Colour: Savile Grey (Metallic Paint). Click Visit Website for service history, online valuation, full vehicle specification, HPI report plus multiple images.

[MGmike]

Conversely, I'd also like to hear from anyone on here interested in acquiring this enthusiastically maintained unicorn.

I'm interested, keep me in mind if you do change.
I think a new oil pump and crank bearings will be enough to keep it going another 100k (or until the tin worm takes hold!)
Cheers

Michael