Citroen Relay 2006 Immobiliser Padlock

[wheeler]

11v on the CAN doesn’t sound good. I have never actually thought about where the CAN signal comes from but i would guess its from all the ECU’ that are connected on it? I suppose any of those ECU’s could be corrupting the signal.
Where abouts are you scoping it?

[Dieseljimmer]

Hi Wheeler,

Thanks for the reply!
I connected in on Pin 6 and 14 of the OBD plug. I've got no resistance reading across those 2 pins either! This issue, with the CAN, is no doubt why the BSI is not getting a return signal from the ECU, one side is either down or is not able to be received by a fault in the BSI!?

I'm thinking, my next move will be to send the ECU, Keys and BSI away to be checked?

Cheers

[Arizonas11]

Hello,

I have a related but slightly different issue. Wonder if anyone can help. It's very intermittent.

Citroen Relay 2.8 2003. When I bought it (cheap) the man explained that you have to disconnect and reconnect battery to make padlock light go out. he said he had been using it like this for a year. So process was, try to start: padlock light is on, disconnect battery (with isolator switch for 1 second or more) then it would start. I used it reliably like this for 6 months most of the time it just worked and I didn't even have to do the battery thing.

Now this method doesn't always work.. sometimes I have to disconnect and reconnect several times but the most reliably now I have to leave it disconnected over night then I will get a few starts the next day before the padlock light wont go out again.
It all seems quite random and problem has got worse over time. Sometimes just connect for a few seconds or sometimes 10 minutes for it to work.

I am considering sending the ECU away to have the immobiliser bypassed with a company called ECU Code.. has anyone used this method?

If anyone has an inkling from these symptoms I would be very grateful, I did just drive it round Europe with this problem but I can tell its getting worse and one day it wont start.

Cheers

[Dieseljimmer]

Hi Arizonas,
I'm still no further on with this topic! This has been mainly due to time and weather.
I did some research on the ECU on my van, it's a Visteon ECU, swapped it for a checked ECU, still the same issue, I didn't get the immobilizer bypassed.
Also reading other posts, I ordered an engine to chassis earth strap and a battery to body earth. The battery earth, at some point, had suffered heat damage and the copper was corroded at the crimped terminal end! I don't think this is the problem.
When I get time and weather, I'll reconnect the ECU and check wiring back to the BSI as the BSI is not receiving the signal from the ECU that the key has been read and is correct!

I will update this post when I get to the bottom of this issue

[Arizonas11]

Hi Dieseljimmer,

Mmm thats interesting that a different ECU had the same issue.

Hope you get to the bottom of it and yes keep us posted!

[Stricko]

Hi
Did you manage to solve the camper non start?
I have a 2007 relay with exactly the same fault. The van was stood for maybe three months and started very poorly (which was unusual), after a 30 mile round trip and returning home, it refused to restart on the drive. I can get it running with the keycode using my Texa. The padlock key in the dash comes on after 5 seconds and the engine turns over but will not start unless the key code is put in via the Texa.

[wheeler]

Hi, is this a mk2 (battery will be under the bonnet) or a mk3 (battery will be in the floor)?
Do you have a spare key? If so does it behave the same with this?
As you have the pin code have you tried re programming the key(s). All the keys must be programmed at the same time. As it’s starting & running ok when you override it i would have thought this has to be a key or aerial fault.

[Dieseljimmer]

UPDATE:-
Thrown quite a few new items of hardware at this and I'm still no further on!

New battery earth strap
Engine to chassis earth strap
Fuse box in engine bay
Battery fuses and carrier.
Engine ECU
ABS module tested OK
BSI Tested with ECU and keys, issue found with both BSI and ECU.

BSI:-
Initially unable to access BSI service area due to "Hanging" on reboot. Issue resolved itself after several attempts to re-boot with 10minute count down each time.
ECU:-
Unable to communicate with ECU via CAN lines. Communication via K line only. ECU replaced with new superseded module. Issue still persisting when all modules connected in vehicle. Issue with CAN communication, ECU to BSI, to verify key code at the BSI. Padlock still illuminated on dash. Can access all modules via K Line only.

I have continuity checked CAN wiring from ECU to ABS to BSI. I have continuity throughout.

I'm at the point where, yes, I have continuity but is the resistance correct? (New wiring loom?)
Is there an issue with the ECU module plug pins? (Re plug?)

I have thought about running fly wires from the ECU to the BSI. This would involve splicing into the existing pins/plugs/wiring and correct wire cross section (Length?).

[Relay camperman]

Hi, on your van does the engine managment light come on with ignition on? Mine has the same fault, when i turn on the ignition my EML either flickers or does not come on. On one occasiin the EML did come on, the padlock light went out and the van ran for nearly an hour (on my drive) but the EML light remained on. I turned off the ignition to plug in my code reader into the obd port, turned the ignition on and the flickering EML light returned and the padlock light stayed on and no matter what I have tried since the fault has remained. My OBD (Autel maxipro) will not auto detect the ecu VIN so I have to enter it manually and then its like the ECU is not there? I am searching for the correct information on pinouts on both the ECU and the BSI so I can see what inputs are needed and where from to initiate the switched ground to the R1 main relay so I can basically do what you are doing to eliminate any possible wiring fault. Sorry I cannot be of help to you at the moment but maybe we could work this one out between us.
Thanks

[Dieseljimmer]

Hi There,
No, my EML doesn't even attempt to illuminate, padlock illuminates almost instantly! No comm's with ECU in the fault codes. It sounds like you have an intermittent issue with comm's via the CAN lines.

Your diag. equipment should be able to ready fault codes via the K Line, that's about all you can do without the CAN communication!

I should know the pin No's for the ECU to BSI. I've got the N/SF headlamp out and loom insulation unwrapped in that area. I have a wiring diagram showing pins etc, a twisted pair from ECU to ABS to BSI (16 pin diag. socket).
I'm work at the minute. I'll try and get online later and share what I have with you to-date.

Cheers

[wheeler]

The CAN lines have continuity but have you confirmed that they are not shorted to earth or shorted together?

[Relay camperman]

I am still learning how to use my Autel, I am trying to find out how to diagnose using the K line, any help on that would be appreciated. I am still left wondering why this has happened from just the van standing/flat battery,. Battery was recharged when disconnected!!

[Dieseljimmer]

Same here, stood for 5 weeks tops, went to and then this, battery was up, turning over but wouldn't fire!!

[Dieseljimmer]

The CAN lines have continuity but have you confirmed that they are not shorted to earth or shorted together?

Ah, good point, not checked that whilst diagnosing! You become so blinkered/fixated/frustrated, you miss the process! I will get back to the post.

[Dieseljimmer]

Hi, on your van does the engine managment light come on with ignition on? Mine has the same fault, when i turn on the ignition my EML either flickers or does not come on. On one occasiin the EML did come on, the padlock light went out and the van ran for nearly an hour (on my drive) but the EML light remained on. I turned off the ignition to plug in my code reader into the obd port, turned the ignition on and the flickering EML light returned and the padlock light stayed on and no matter what I have tried since the fault has remained. My OBD (Autel maxipro) will not auto detect the ecu VIN so I have to enter it manually and then its like the ECU is not there? I am searching for the correct information on pinouts on both the ECU and the BSI so I can see what inputs are needed and where from to initiate the switched ground to the R1 main relay so I can basically do what you are doing to eliminate any possible wiring fault. Sorry I cannot be of help to you at the moment but maybe we could work this one out between us.
Thanks

I've PM'ed you with some diagrams. Let me know if you get them and that their legible? Happy to discuss