EGR Bypass constant reading of 100%. Poor acceleration

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Re: EGR Bypass constant reading of 100%. Poor acceleration

Post by GiveMeABreak »

So if it's the one I'm thinking of, then 0-100 K/h in 13.4 seconds.

Acceleration 0 - 100 km/h to 0 - 60 MPH Multiply time by 0.95.
100 km/h is 62.1 MPH. It takes longer to hit 100 km/h than 60 MPH.
The energy required for acceleration varies as the square of the velocity. Actually 0.9324 is the square of (60/62.1). Unlike the other conversions, acceleration values will vary from this calculation if there is a shift point between these two speeds. That's why 0.95 is closer to reality and unlike the other figures is somewhat variable. Mercedes specified some Diesel acceleration times for 0 - 55 MPH, for which you need to multiply by about 1.19 to get the time to 60 MPH.
So 13.4 x 0.95 = 12.4 Seconds
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Re: EGR Bypass constant reading of 100%. Poor acceleration

Post by ImNoExpert »

Yep, sounds about right, but mine takes 20 seconds or more. Hence looking for the problem. :(
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Re: EGR Bypass constant reading of 100%. Poor acceleration

Post by ImNoExpert »

I don't suppose you have any instruction on how to drain the cooling system on this? I attempted the removal of the EGR today but couldn't figure it out to put it back together.

I know what you're thinking. 'If he doesn't know how to drain water, he probably shouldn't be attempting EGR removal'. :D
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Re: EGR Bypass constant reading of 100%. Poor acceleration

Post by ImNoExpert »

OKaay for anyone listening. Theory number.....4??

Re; the EGR Bypass Circuit. The Bypass valve is used for either Cooling or providing direct hot exhaust gasses to quickly warm the Cat and Engine etc. upon Start-up. When the vehicle reaches Operating Temp, the Valve is Closed. From what I can muster, the valve is only used for Cold Start AND DPF Regen. It is not used at any other time. Therefore, regardless of the readings of 100% in Red, the action of the bypass Valve is working based upon the observation of it i.e From Cold start the vacuum is activated and the valve is moved. When it is warm the valve is released allowing constant cooled air to be used when the ECU determines the Fuel/Air Mixture based upon Throttle position.

The Idea of the Red 100% reading may be a Red Herring and another issue in it's own right, but I no longer think it has anything to do with my symptoms. On the other hand, the EGR Valve readings are in sync, from Instruction to Position, however even though the readings may be good, does that translate to physical movement of the valve, or could the valve be working but after the valve the airflow is restricted?

The van drives as if it is suffocating. The van drives as if it's towing. The van drives erratically. Still no smoke, still no codes, but it's misfiring and lumpy and slow. Turbo or effect of is inconsistent.

I took off the Air Doser today and used a mirror to look up inside it. I could see the entrance to the Manifold and the small flexi hose from the EGR into the manifold was covered in Carbon, but it looked Dry, not sticky; It looked like soot more than gunk.

I'll strip it tomorrow and see if it improves. I still need to know how to drain the coolant? :D
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Re: EGR Bypass constant reading of 100%. Poor acceleration

Post by ImNoExpert »

Hi folks. An update for this week.

I've just had a diagnostic that picked up zero codes and all systems appears to be working correctly. He also managed to remove the Speed Limiter. However, it's still slow.

He also confirmed my own theory of a possible Leak of either Boost or Vacuum, but as it was only booked in for a comp Diag he didn't have time to investigate.

I haven't mentioned but this engine has been out in the past to replace a snapped Turbo Bolt. Some of the wires and pipes are all over the place. It's quite possible something is either split, or slightly leaking. As all sensors and reading seems OK, I'm going to assume it's After the Turbo? Maybe even the exhaust?

Might anyone have a clue as to where to start looking? It's very tight at the back of the engine. I've already tried to take a look, but nothing obvious except one solenoid vac pip has a cable tie on the end of it. I'll start there with a mirror and try remove and inspect.
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Re: EGR Bypass constant reading of 100%. Poor acceleration

Post by ImNoExpert »

OK, so I can't find a leak anywhere. I've used a mirror and a torch to try and illuminate the rear of the engine where the solenoids are. One breather pipe was loose and came away when I looked at it! but there is one suspect place....The Turbo Outlet to the Intercooler has a slight oil leak where the gasket connection is. It's connected to an Air Union. Could it be at all possible that is creating the Flapping/farting sound and I'm losing pressure from there? I'm going to clean the area with brake cleaner and try get some more turns on the nuts. It's a bit tight under there so i may not succeed.
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Re: EGR Bypass constant reading of 100%. Poor acceleration

Post by ImNoExpert »

Hi everyone......My update thus far. It may still come down to a Blocked DPF. It's now at 91%. It recently completed a Regen while I was driving and checking the live data on the FAP app. It got to 6gram and flashed up that the Regen had started, so I drove it for about 10 mins and watched the numbers go down to zero. I've mentioned it earlier that the EGR closes the Cooler and the Air Doser limits or closes the Intercooler to raise the temp. I watched it go up to 6-700 degrees. Since then I've had it in for a Diagnostic and No Codes were found! This business is called Dave's, here in Consett County Durham. Dave's stands for 'Diagnostic And Vehicle Engine Services'. They are specialists in Remap/Rolling Road, DPF/EGR delete and problems other garages can't find.


So, Dave's removed the Speed Limiter successfully, but he also noticed the lack of power, possible Air/Blowing and the flat spots on the throttle response. However as it was only booked in for a Diag and Limiter removal he didn't have time to inspect fully. I've booked back in on the 31st Aug.


I removed the EGR for Inspection and Cleaning. the cooler part was pretty clogged I think with the rest of it covered in soot, more than gunk. I've cleaned it and put it back on. the valve was working fine and continues to do so after refitting. The symptoms are the same as before. Erratic Idle, Jerking and hesitation at low revs, loss of power.


@Marc, if i can quiz you on why you are not concerned by the 90% blocked DPF figure?

All that seems left bar a very hidden Air leak is worn injectors, blocked Cat or DPF or all of them combined.



OR....I've tried a few free apps to use with my ELM scanner. The Citroen/Peugeot FAP app shows a very clear signal from the Pedal Position. It's smooth from 0-100%. However, on 2 other apps the pedal or TPS is showing at 85% or 69%. the one showing 85% used to show other percentages too such as 35%, but it's stopped and shows a constant 85% and doesn't change at all in any circumstance. the other app shows around 70% and does move but flat lines as if 100% throttle with only the slightest touch of the pedal, it will move up and down on the graph, but never shows anything less than 70%. The guy at Dave's said he was convinced it wasn't the TPS or Pedal sensor as nothing showed up on his Diag. However, he also may or may not have noticed the 90% blocked DPF as he claimed it's wasn't a worry and would Burn off on a regen. I went on to explain it was Cerine Deposits and the DPF has a finite life.......he wasn't convinced, so Now I'm not sure if he's as clued up as he suggests. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and explain this again when i drop it off on the 31st. It's going to be a long 2 weeks again.


I know I talk a lot folks. I'm not sure what to do next if the diag shoes nothing. Injectors out? DPF Cleaned? CAT Cleaned?
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Re: EGR Bypass constant reading of 100%. Poor acceleration

Post by GiveMeABreak »

ImNoExpert wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 17:16 @Marc, if i can quiz you on why you are not concerned by the 90% blocked DPF figure?
Because as I explained in my previous post (viewtopic.php?p=725318#p725318), that reading will vary depending on when the diagnostic reading is taken. :wink: The soot levels rise and then after regeneration, will fall again.

According to the mileage, that's well below the maintenance due on the particle filter - these should be good for over 100k or more.
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Re: EGR Bypass constant reading of 100%. Poor acceleration

Post by ImNoExpert »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 18:03
ImNoExpert wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 17:16 @Marc, if i can quiz you on why you are not concerned by the 90% blocked DPF figure?
Because as I explained in my previous post (viewtopic.php?p=725318#p725318), that reading will vary depending on when the diagnostic reading is taken. :wink: The soot levels rise and then after regeneration, will fall again.

According to the mileage, that's well below the maintenance due on the particle filter - these should be good for over 100k or more.
Hi Marc......this is the Cinder left behind AFTER Regen. The Cerine deposits can't be filtered. the DPF has a finite life of Regeneration as it builds up with Cerine deposits.

The 90% is not part of the Maintenance Regeneration cycles. It's 90% blocked of Cerine deposits. Hence in the numbers from the screen grab, it states the DPF has only about 17k miles before completely blocked and needs replaced. This is not to be confused with the 6gram of soot that starts the regen Cycle.


Or is it me that's read it wrong? the van or DPF has 176,000miles on it.
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Re: EGR Bypass constant reading of 100%. Poor acceleration

Post by ImNoExpert »

I've read it either in this app or somewhere else that this 90% represents Blockage in total of the DPF and not part of the Regen Cycle. When I got the van it showed as 89%, it's now on 91% and has completed over 10 regens according to the data here at an average of 150 miles each time.

This figure of what is now 91% doesn't change. It only goes up. I have around 17kmiles left as an ECU estimate that the DPF will be completely blocked.
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Re: EGR Bypass constant reading of 100%. Poor acceleration

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Yes, a bit of confusion here - I use Diagbox and I know that states the current blockage levels which change after a regen., plus the conflicting info (just reading back briefly) is that you said it has done 176k miles, yet the App is only reporting reporting 62k miles on this DPF .... so has the DPF already been replaced / cleaned I'm wondering.
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Re: EGR Bypass constant reading of 100%. Poor acceleration

Post by ImNoExpert »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 19:22 Yes, a bit of confusion here - I use Diagbox and I know that states the current blockage levels which change after a regen., plus the conflicting info (just reading back briefly) is that you said it has done 176k miles, yet the App is only reporting reporting 62k miles on this DPF .... so has the DPF already been replaced / cleaned I'm wondering.
Ah yes. According the history work sheet at 162k Exhaust Emissions Adblue pump replace, EGR Valve and Exhaust Emission Control Regen. (assumed forced).

However, that was only about 15k ago and not the stated 62k on the app. So I've no Idea. It's been owned by Euro Car Parts only before me. 170,269k was the last receipt for work done by them and it's now on 177,226k. I've done just over 2k in 3 months. Half of this driving round trying to Diagnose. lol. I've replaced Fuel and Air filter, MAF and MAP. Throttle body is recent by them, EGR cleaned by me, Turbo new by them. No Codes.

3 months ago i took it to an independent mobile Diag and he reported massive back pressure and 89% blocked DPF. I just don't think he had the experience or knowledge to interpret the figures. It's now starting to look like a blocked DPF for sure as well as potential other problems such as Injectors and Cat maybe. The blowing that Dave's mechanic heard could be a failed exhaust seal if the back pressure is so high? could this also blow the injector seals too and destroy the turbo?

I've just watched this vid that states the DPF is considered blocked by 80%!

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Re: EGR Bypass constant reading of 100%. Poor acceleration

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Yes, if we ignore the app for a moment as I can't trust what that is referring to, but if a DPF reaches anywhere over 70% full, then regeneration can become ineffective in unblocking the filter once it gets this full.

But if we ignore the app's stated mileage on the DPF and assume it's the original DPF, then yes, it is well overdue for a replacement. It's possible that it may have had a slight ineffective clean or it may be that somebody has told the engine ECU that it has been replaced when it has not, so that the countdown has started again at 62,137 miles ago. So in this case yes a blocked DPF is going to build back pressure and this will affect engine performance. So probably time to get it replaced ore removed and deep-cleaned.

On another note concerning the history of work you mention, there's nothing there to suggest any work has been done on the DPF system - only that the Adblue pump / tank has been replaced, which is completely separate and not-related.
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Re: EGR Bypass constant reading of 100%. Poor acceleration

Post by ImNoExpert »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 22:05 Yes, if we ignore the app for a moment as I can't trust what that is referring to, but if a DPF reaches anywhere over 70% full, then regeneration can become ineffective in unblocking the filter once it gets this full.

Thanks for getting involved. Yes so IF this reading is to be believed, and I think it should be, then is it safe to assume a blocked DPF will cause hesitation, Jerking, Surging, low power output, erratic idle, nox fumes from exhaust etc.

If is CAN be the cause, then do i have course for action for a Dealer to sell me a £6k van that requires a DPF from Day 1? He's already replaced the clutch but claims it's running perfectly noraml. Trouble is he's 110 miles away and a 5hr day there and back.

I suppose i need to get it to a DPF specialist. Is there anything I can do myself to confirm? Thanks again.
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Re: EGR Bypass constant reading of 100%. Poor acceleration

Post by GiveMeABreak »

It depends on what sort of warranty you have with it and how long you've had it. I mean you have the evidence that the filter is blocked / end of life, so will soon be undriveable in this state.

Be careful around exclusions relating to the exhaust - as the DPF should be looked at as a separate item to an exhaust system. It would seem if original, that it is at end of life.
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