help, big problems with 306 HDI

paul_hdi · Unread post by **paul_hdi** » 31 May 2005, 00:04

Hey all,
I hope someone out here will be able to shed some light on my situation

What happened was my girlfriend and I changed the waterpump on my car, everything went well, taking the cambelt cover panels off, supporting the engine on a jack with wheel ramps underneath the subframe as extra support and precaution, put a draper locking tool thing in to the flywheel and locked it with a bolt. Then inserted pins in to the camshaft drive sproket, so all the usual precautions taken to make sure the shafts did not move.
Then we undone with great difficulty was the crankshaft pulley bolt, but before doing so we put the car in 5th gear so help prevent the whole lot moving. After the bolt was undone, pulley was remove marking-up where everything should be put back with some chalk, removed aux. belt.
After doing the above we removed the timing belt whilst being very careful not to move any of the sprokets. We made sure we found and mated up the white bit of paint of the sproket with the little bit of white paint parallel on the engine block.
We drained the system of water for a few hours.
Changed the water pump easily, secured all back properly with gasket sealent, then proceded to put the old cambelt (only done 3000miles on it) back on, measuring the tension by turning the belt 45 degrees on the longest run, and then securing the tensioner.
Next we cleaned the camshaft pullet bolt, and applied some loctite threading compound, we then put the pulley back on properly with and tightened the bolt to the specified torque.
We then fitted a new aux. belt as old one had some fine cracks, placed all cambelt panels back up, put new antifreeze in radiator with enough water.
After doing this, we secured all the rest (engine mounts, wheel etc) and the went on the road with it. Carried 3 bottles of water. Went up the road, all was fine and the temparature increased at a fast rate, pull over, engine off, filled up with water, fans were kicking in for a while, went along, warning light came on for low water, filled up with more water, and then all seemed fine.
We let the car idle for 25-30mins, making sure the fans kicked in when up to around 95-100 degrees (we let it do that twice).
So all was fine that night, car working properly, pulling through gears fine, turbo spinning up normally.
The problem today was in the morning, started her up, was a strange 'clattering', went down the road a bit more, and this clattering became worse with the engine shaking violently.
Was soo worried about this, I got the car towed home by greenflag.
We have re-checked everything was aligned as we took the parts off again, we just can't work out why its doing this?!
I've got some questions about this:
What is the significance of the little embossed markings on the camshaft pulley, which looks like this:
\ . /
Does the fuel pump, which is has a sproket, require timing?
Autodata states that it doesn't. Also, on the fuel pump sproket, what is the significance of the embossed 'capsule' shape?
I know this post is very long winded, I just wanted to make sure whoever reads this knows what has been done.
Please, can anybody help???
Thanks for any replies,
Paul

Dave Bamber · Unread post by **Dave Bamber** » 31 May 2005, 00:39

The HDi pump sprocket doesn't need timing as the pump only supplies pressure to the fuel rail. Check all the wiring on the injectors and any sensors etc to see if anything come loose.

rossd · Unread post by **rossd** » 31 May 2005, 00:59

Might be a long shot, but if its clattering and you have been playing with the camblet, the cam position sensor could be at fault. Make sure its seated the required distance from the pickup, I think its some crazy small distance like 0.1mm...
Its all on here:
http://www.christiantena.pwp.blueyonder ... index.html

paul_hdi · Unread post by **paul_hdi** » 31 May 2005, 01:11

Hey there,
thanks for the reply

Where abouts would this sensor be located?
Is it near be camshaft or crankshaft?
cheers,
Paul

paul_hdi · Unread post by **paul_hdi** » 31 May 2005, 01:28

Hey there,
would the camshaft position sensor look like this:
http://www.auto-solve.com/cid.htm
thanks,
Paul

paul_hdi · Unread post by **paul_hdi** » 31 May 2005, 02:09

Hey there,
I've read quite a bit about what a camshaft position sensor does. With regards to my problem, would the engine violently shake due to the possibility of fuel being injected at incorrect intervals?
Also is the sensor delicate or does it require removing when changing/removing a cambelt?
thanks,
Paul

wheeler · Unread post by **wheeler** » 31 May 2005, 04:11

if the camshaft sensor was faulty or not adjusted correctly it just wouldnt start,on this engine it is only used for telling the ECU that the cam & crankshafts are syncronised for initial start up,it does not affect the running of the engine,you can even disconect it once the engine is running & it will run fine (it just wont start up again once switched off till it is reconected)
sounds like the crankshaft pulley may be breaking up ??

paul_hdi · Unread post by **paul_hdi** » 31 May 2005, 04:22

Hey there,
Hmmm, so maybe it isn't the camshaft position sensor......
......thing is, when we looked at the pulley after finding out there was a problem with the engine, I tried to pull the pulley to see if there was any play in it, but there was none.
I didn't realise that the pulley could break up inside.
Could an over-tight aux. belt cause premature failure of the pulley?
thanks,
Paul

paul_hdi · Unread post by **paul_hdi** » 01 Jun 2005, 00:46

Hey people,
right I've recorded a sound clip of the car running.
The sound clip entails the car idling, the slightly faster, and the near the engine revving a touch, and then we stopped the engine.
http://www.brunel.ac.uk/~ee04pac/personal/carnoise.mp3
let me know what you think,
cheers,
Paul

PowerLee · Unread post by **PowerLee** » 01 Jun 2005, 01:06

Hi
That sounds like incorrect timing to me ears, Sounds very sick.

paul_hdi · Unread post by **paul_hdi** » 01 Jun 2005, 02:55

Just thought I'd add that there wasn't any strange smoke coming out of the exhaust, just the normal 'invisable' smell,
cheers,
Paul

PowerLee · Unread post by **PowerLee** » 01 Jun 2005, 03:40

After speaking to a mate whos a Peugeot technician with HDI training & him reading what you have posted & hearing your HDI running thanks to your link he said the following.
Check the timing is correct.
Check the oil level.
Take it to a Peugeot main dealer & prepare for the worst because it sounds ( I cant use the word he did here ) expensive.

Mosser · Unread post by **Mosser** » 01 Jun 2005, 05:40

I have incorrectly timed a xud engined peugeot (accidentally!) and that is pretty much what it sounded like, yours must be a long way out to actually stall at the end of revving, it sounds like valves hitting pistons to me which is not a good thing, your going to have to go over the timing very carefully, especially in respect of the crankshaft timing (dont rely on marks)

paul_hdi · Unread post by **paul_hdi** » 01 Jun 2005, 15:01

Hey there,
many thanks for the replies
When we checked to see if the timing was correct, i.e. putting the camshaft to TDC with the white bit of pain on sprocket against the engine white paint, but thats all we have to go on, cos we're not sure where the pulley is supposed to be, i.e. the direction, we just left it as is, making sure if didn't move, but then again anything is possible.
Does anybody have concrete info on the 'marks' to look for so that the timing can be set?
thanks,
Paul

arry_b · Unread post by **arry_b** » 01 Jun 2005, 17:24

Odd how it was OK for a while then dead the next morning. Is the belt still tight?
Do the 306 HDI's need a header tank to bleed the coolant? Anyone?
I note you haven't said you've used one - blown head gasket or cracked head perhaps?