Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

[mickthemaverick]

In the background for the last few days I've been in email correspondence with Matt from Cleevely Electric Vehicles in Cheltenham, he quoted a dramatically lower labour cost than Electron Garage (£150+vat) and when I queried this when the whole stack would have to be removed, A/C re-gassed etc he confirmed that no, you can actually remove the gearbox through the bottom by itself without removing the rest of the motor stack - as long as the motor etc is supported to make up for the missing engine mount that normally attaches to the gearbox.

In fact he said it was a relatively quick job to do with the right equipment, and doesn't require disconnection of any HV cables, coolant drain, A/C regas etc.. it would just require the driveshafts out and gearbox drained and new one refilled afterwards of course. So knowing now that it's possible to drop the gearbox out the bottom by itself (albeit probably only if you have a hoist available, which they do and I don't) cheers me up a lot.

I'm rather glad that my theoretical method from earlier will work!! It certainly helps restore my faith in my own assessments
I hope it works out well for you Simon but I would still contact Nissan if I were you, if only to strengthen other peoples possible complaints in the future!!

[Mandrake]

I did contact Nissan and got a response but they are not willing to give me a repair price even a worst case estimate without seeing the car in their workshop.

[mickthemaverick]

Simon, if you go on this link you can access the Nissan UK complaints department. I suggest you write your story and request assistance with the repair costs! Nothing to lose and you can copy and paste most of it from your existing records! Good luck!

https://www.nissan.co.uk/customer-servi ... ct-us.html

[NewcastleFalcon]

The inverter does bolt onto both the motor and gearbox thus bridging them together, (have a look on your own car on the corner nearest the 12v battery and you'll see some upside down bolts) ..

Had a rare peek under the bonnet to see if I could see the upside down bolt. The only one I could see is this, which joins the charger to the inverter.

The inverter and gearbox are not connected by any bolts as far as I can see.
The inverter is bolted only to the motor, by the six bolts protruding from the motor casing here.

REgards Neil

[Skull]

Also does anyone have the torque figures for the bottom ball joint nut and also the bolts that hold the arm onto the car??

Drop links
M10 nuts 40 Nm 30 Ibf/ft
M12 nuts 70 Nm 52 Ibf/ft

Lower arm front pivot and rear inc anti-roll bar clamp are the same:
85 Nm 63 Ibf/ft

Lower balljoint to lower arm nut
45 Nm 33 Ibf/ft

No doubt this is pending now the Leaf is un-driveable, although there's always the fear of having no working transport

I've gone down the bush replacement route again (£41 for both sides inc drop links) rather than a complete arm for my HDi (last ones only lasted 16,000 miles though despite pre-loading the bushes before torquing) mine came apart fairly easy apart from clearance where the anti-roll bar needed levering up to allow the rear pivot joint to slot out, but it had only been in there 3 years so no siezed nuts, good luck with yours ....

[DHallworth]

Sometimes paying the dealer an hour or two labour can be worthwhile as they can pull strings with the manufacturer. If your car has full dealer service history, it might be worth asking them what the inspection charge would be so you can work out costings and go from there.

If you make enough noise with Nissan you might get a good will contribution of the majority of your repair cost and at least that way you'd have a known good gearbox going in. I might have missed it, but how old is your car and how many miles has it done?

David.

[Mandrake]

Sometimes paying the dealer an hour or two labour can be worthwhile as they can pull strings with the manufacturer. If your car has full dealer service history, it might be worth asking them what the inspection charge would be so you can work out costings and go from there.

If you make enough noise with Nissan you might get a good will contribution of the majority of your repair cost and at least that way you'd have a known good gearbox going in. I might have missed it, but how old is your car and how many miles has it done?

David.

Problem is it's not just paying the dealer an hour or two labour - as the car can't be driven there it will have to be trailered there and if I'm not happy with their quote, trailered away again...

I've also not had a very good experience with Macklin motors when they did the "service" in February, nor can I get them to even quote the book cost of a new gearbox replacement so I have some kind of baseline figure to compare against. In short I'm not very happy with them and was already planning to take the car somewhere else for next years service-book-stamping-battery-warranty-maintaining "service"...

The car was registered around August 2016 so is about 1 1/2 years outside the 3 year warranty, and has done only 35k miles. As far as I can see it was well looked after by previous owners (as well as me) so I'm guessing some freak factory defect like a chunk has broken out of the tooth of a gear, as the reports of gearbox failure of Leaf's (or indeed EV's in general) is very very rare.

Based on other Leaf owners experiences with Nissan, I'm quite sceptical that Nissan would in fact provide a useful contribution to this repair, if any, as there are many documented cases on Speak EV of Nissan trying to do their best to dodge things like battery repair under warranty. Nissan UK has a really bad service reputation unfortunately. (Although Peugeot were also very poor when I had the Ion, so maybe its everyone these days..)

At the moment I'm waiting while Cleevely try to source a 2nd hand gearbox for me, and until they can find one I don't know what the cost will be, when I've looked online prices are all over the place anywhere from £600 to £1500 for 2nd hand. My guess based on that is a new gearbox without contribution from Nissan would be >£3000, although since they refuse to tell me the price of a gearbox without seeing the car I don't really know. (Anyone have any inside info with Nissan who could look up the book price of a new gearbox ??)

Cleevely warned me up front that they are very busy at the moment and have a 2 week wait to get a car in, however have quoted me £150 labour which seems very reasonable, and it is a job they have done before. So it's a bit of a waiting game at the moment to see what they come back with.

I understand the apprehension that some here have shown regarding a 2nd hand gearbox, however the wear/failure modes of an EV gearbox are very different to an ICE gearbox especially an Auto.

I would be very hesitant slapping in an ICE Auto box of unknown provenance as we all know the failure/wear modes they have. But an EV gearbox is a simple thing with nothing really to wear out even at quite high mileages let alone 35k - I seem to have been hit by a freak sudden failure such as a chipped gear, possibly from a manufacturing defect at the factory. I'm extremely unlikely to encounter the same problem with another gearbox, and part of the idea of having Cleevely do the work instead of me is I would have some warranty period on the repair which I would not if I fitted the gearbox myself.

I've enjoyed driving the Xantia the last two weeks but apart from petrol costs its now >90k miles so into gearbox worry territory and is also due an MOT at the end of this month, so should it fail the test for any reason and I don't have the Leaf back and fixed by then I'm in a bit of a sticky situation.

For some reason my cars always seem to break down shortly before one is due for an MOT test!

[NewcastleFalcon]

No idea of how useful this lot will be, but they do have a picture of a Nissan Leaf

https://www.ukgearbox.com/nissan/

Will any old parts Dept for Nissan not give you a price for a new gearbox, the part anyway, in a phone call?

I found out the other day who make the box for Nissan Leaf, more a curiosity than of any use. Japanese company Aichi Machine Industry Co., Ltd.

http://www.aichikikai.co.jp/en/powertrain/

Please note, we do not sell products and parts to general customers.

For inquiries about the maintenance, repairs, or parts relating to your vehicle, or our products installed in your vehicle, please contact the dealer from which you purchased your vehicle, or customer support of the vehicle manufacturer.

REgards Neil

[DHallworth]

If you phone any Nissan dealer and ask for the parts department, give them your reg, and ask them for a price on a gearbox they should be able to help you out. I always pick up the phone with dealers as they’re useless at replying to emails and the girls on the service desks just aren’t interested.

[Mandrake]

I have a quote from a company in Bury Lancaster for a 2nd hand gearbox.

It has come out of a 2017 30kWh Leaf (one year newer than mine, same gearbox/model) which was less than 3 years old when it had a minor rear impact and was written off. They say the car is low mileage however it was less than 3 when written off so there is no MOT check online. License plate was GV17 ZPO and while there is no MOT check it does show up on a license plate check.

They want £650 + £75 delivery + vat for £870 all up including VAT, 60 day warranty. Seems reasonable when a new one is probably in the £5k range?

I'm thinking if I have it sent up to me I keep my options option - if Cleevely do the work I just put the gearbox in the boot with the car when it's collected, if they don't I keep my options open.

Btw I used https://www.partsgateway.co.uk/ - I filled in a search form with the license plate, what part I was looking for and gave my email address and phone number and I had a phone call back within a couple of minutes!! I was not expecting that as I was just browsing for prices at the moment.

[Mandrake]

The inverter does bolt onto both the motor and gearbox thus bridging them together, (have a look on your own car on the corner nearest the 12v battery and you'll see some upside down bolts) ..

Had a rare peek under the bonnet to see if I could see the upside down bolt. The only one I could see is this, which joins the charger to the inverter.



The inverter and gearbox are not connected by any bolts as far as I can see.
The inverter is bolted only to the motor, by the six bolts protruding from the motor casing here.



REgards Neil

I think you're right Neil - the gearbox just unbolts off the side and drops down through the bottom.

So to do the job you'd need to lift the car up, remove the undertray, drain the gearbox, remove the hubs to get the driveshafts out, support the motor stack from below the motor or from above with a strap so the left hand (and possibly rear) engine mounts can be removed, and unbolt the gearbox off the side.

Probably needs a 2 post lift to do the job easily.

[Gibbo2286]

I've not read all through this thread so I don't know but has this been posted?
Looking at the innards of that box I think maybe the clatter you have could be from the parking brake pawl bouncing off the ring., is something adrift there?

[RichardW]

It does sound a lot like the pawl, not sure why it only catches on reverse / overrun, but possibly it's a hydrodynamic effect of the oil drag. I would drain the oil to see if anything untoward comes out with it. Removing the box will be easier than most ICE FWD cars as it is 1/4 the size and weight. The £150 quote for labour suggests only an hour or so to get it out. Looks like there is a bracket on the back of the box that might be a PITA to remove with it in the car. TBH you've nothing to lose except a couple of hours of your time!

[Mandrake]

I really don't see how it can be the parking pawl - as that's on the motor input shaft and turns at 8x wheel speed. There also appear to be 10 indents per revolution for the pawl to lock into, so for every rotation of the wheel there are 80 opportunities for a misbehaving pawl to get snagged. (Or 8 if it only snagged at one point on the rotation of the input shaft) That is way, way faster than the repetition rate of the noise, by about an order of magnitude.

Also the noise is dependant on direction of torque not the direction of rotation - I can produce the noise in either rotation direction but only when the torque is in one direction. (driving in reverse under load or decelerating when driving forwards) As the parking pawl operates directly on the input shaft which the motor drives without passing through any gears first there is no way it can detect or be affected by direction of torque - it could only be affected by direction of rotation.

I've changed my mind on where the problem is likely to be - I don't think it's a bearing fault anymore, I think it will prove to be a chip out of the side of one of the teeth on the large differential wheel - that fits in with the noise happening once per wheel revolution and also fits in with the noise only occurring when the gears are meshing in one direction such that force is applied to the chipped surface. In the other direction the opposite undamaged side of the tooth is being driven so it remains silent.

If it is indeed a chipped tooth, reconditioning the gearbox is out of the question if Nissan don't make the gear wheel available as a separate part - while bearings are probably available after market the gear wheel most likely isn't and will be custom for the Leaf gearbox.

So box replacement is almost certainly the only option so I don't think there's any point trying to strip it down or even drain the oil at the moment to be honest. (Although if I retain the old box after another one is fitted I will probably open it to perform a post mortem to find out what the real cause was)

Incidentally I've had some further quotes come back since the initial £870 inc vat offer from Bury that I received by phone:

£850, 6 month guarantee - Southampton, no further details so I'd need to phone them to find out about the car it came out of
£3,654, 3 month guarantee - Rochdale, same as above no further details without phoning
£2,195, 24 month guarantee, "recon" box - Brentwood

If people are willing to charge up to £3600 for a 2nd hand box, I can only assume the new price is over £5k!!!

I think I better hurry up and get one of the ~£800 boxes while they're still available with some of the others being so expensive... I'll give the one in Southhampton a call tomorrow to find out more details about the car it came out of to compare to the first one.

Once I have a box I can worry about who or how to install it.

One thing occurs to me - when pulling the driveshafts out and swapping the box, will the gearbox need new output shaft seals fitting ? Should I be trying to track down some new seals ? I assume a box from a scrapped car will still have the original seals in it.

[Mandrake]

A bit more info about the motor and gearbox:

https://www.marklines.com/en/report_all/rep1104_201209

Gearbox made by Aichi Machine Industry.

It appears to have an intermediate bearing flange on the drivers side driveshaft - I assume this is bolted onto the gearbox and probably has to be detached to pull the drivers side driveshaft out?

https://www.marklines.com/statics/repor ... 04_009.jpg

The motor weighs 58Kg according to that report but I haven't been able to find a weight for the gearbox yet. How heavy it is affects how easy it is to do the job with manual tools of course...