Guide to Replacing the NG4 Navidrive 3D Hard Drive with a CF Card

stefan21 · Post by **stefan21** » 08 Apr 2021, 23:52

Hi Marc,

thank you for your hints, as I wrote, the SSD adventure cost me already 580 EUR net. I prepared a CF-card, triple checked that the content is 1:1 to my HDD. Will replace the unit tomorrow in the car. I'll report about. Still my question with the 8MB buffer of the HDD. You don't think that this could be a problem? As I said, I'm not the hardware expert. Therefore I don't know if the system claims that buffer...

Post by **GiveMeABreak** » 09 Apr 2021, 12:29

The QNX variant operating system is designed to use that available buffer - and creates the relevant partitions using the firmware if you were to start from scratch and using this method. The OS would still see the CF card as an HDD so no difference.

stefan21 · Post by **stefan21** » 10 Apr 2021, 11:53

Well, not quite clear to me. The HDD comes with a 8MB buffer. IMVHO the CF-card has no buffer. You think this does not matter? Buffer reduces R/W cycles....

Navi with CF-card is back in the car. Booted o.k. It seems that all functions are working. No time to drive yet, will report later.

Post by **GiveMeABreak** » 10 Apr 2021, 12:04

Don't worry about it - the buffer is more relevant to a HDD or a camera where you might want to take a quick sequence of photos before writing to the card, where the images are buffered before writing - but it's never been an issue with mine and always booted far quicker than the HDD.

stefan21 · Post by **stefan21** » 12 Apr 2021, 22:17

System is up and running, can't see any errors so far.

I'd like to know if there are any differences between the automated partitioning with the upgrade CD/USB and to clone with dd the image of the original HDD. The image of my original fully functional HDD looks like this:

#sfdisk -l toshiba-c6.img
Festplatte toshiba-c6.img: 27,95 GiB, 30005854208 Bytes, 58605184 Sektoren
Einheiten: Sektoren von 1 * 512 = 512 Bytes
Sektorgröße (logisch/physikalisch): 512 Bytes / 512 Bytes
E/A-Größe (minimal/optimal): 512 Bytes / 512 Bytes
Festplattenbezeichnungstyp: dos
Festplattenbezeichner: 0x413917ea

Gerät Boot Anfang Ende Sektoren Größe Kn Typ
toshiba-c6.img1 * 63 4104701 4104639 2G 6 FAT16
toshiba-c6.img2 4104702 27545741 23441040 11,2G c W95 FAT32 (LBA)
toshiba-c6.img3 27545742 29889845 2344104 1,1G 6 FAT16
toshiba-c6.img4 29889846 58605119 28715274 13,7G c W95 FAT32 (LBA)

The cli is under linux.

Have you got information about a SSD (or CF) where the partitioning was done by the upgrade CD? I'd really like to know if the partitions are, regardless of HDD, SSD or CF, static. In this case they should be identical to mine. If not, I'll indicate that if replacing is done with any other hardware than a HDD, the upgrade CD *MUST* be used to get a perfect layout for the system. Reading the BootRom.sym from the CD with an ascii-editior (i.e. Bluefish) points in a direction, that VxWorks is optimizing the disk while using the upgrade CD.

Post by **GiveMeABreak** » 13 Apr 2021, 11:19

I can only tell you that the Firmware on this system is designed to recreate the partitions exactly as pre-defined. Obviously if you are cloning a HDD then you will have all your existing data on there too - but - although bad sectors aren't cloned, any damaged data will get copied over.

The partitions are created to specific sizes and cannot be increased or changed as as far as I can tell and from my own experiments it will not work. I did have issues cloning, so instead went for a complete format and reinstall using the firmware which was fine as I never used the Jukebox and all my contacts are stored on my phone via Bluetooth. I hardly saved any data apart from a few navigation journeys so it was better for me to install the firmware and create everything from scratch on the CF card.

You just need to reconfigure personal settings afterwards.

coarist · Post by **coarist** » 29 May 2021, 20:55

This Guide is going to save me going into blind alleyways.

I was believing that simply cloning the NG4 HDD onto an older PIDE SSD would do the trick - to prevent failure due to HDD worn out.

The Guide pointed out:
- SSD is not reliable on NG4 (save me one wasteful attemp).
- CF + PIDE adaptor is demonstrated to be the best candidate (spare me from more fruitless attempt)
- Regular HDD clone programs on PC is not ideal tool due to file-system (save a number of trails)

To ensure success, I am getting the exact model of CF that the Guide suggested. Despite thinking that this is "dated" hardware, sourcing it is not that difficult.

When I make progress converting my mechanical HDD into solid state CF, I will pick from my own expereince of doing it those highlights that will be worth sharing, and I willl post up here.

Post by **GiveMeABreak** » 29 May 2021, 23:11

Yes I specifically put in the guide to use a CF card as the ATA command set is the same - SATA is not supported on the PATA IDE interface and command set as the TRIM function is not supported in the operating system used, so the SSD would rapidly fill up and crawl to a halt. Sometimes newer and faster isn't always better - especially for older systems.

I was running off the same CF card for years without incident before I sold my C5 X7 - I was then able to provide the new owner with the original HDD boxed up in perfect working order as a bonus.

coarist · Post by **coarist** » 30 May 2021, 10:11

Confidence is further enhanced having learnt that CF performed reliability over time.

---------------------------

Total number of NG4 Navidrive 3D units being in use is alhtough not large yet it is not insignificant.

The headunit has an iinternal harddisk drive. Most of the time during operation, the system only reads from the HDD. Both when writing to and reading from the HDD the magnetic head would be unparked and move over the spinning surface. Overall, this happens only a small percentage. However, the magnetic head accessing the disk surface is where mechanical disturbance can cause significant wear and tear and it is unavoidable due to its nature.

Using solid state Compact Flash can eliminate mechanical movement altogether. Further, power consumption and hence heat stress will also reduce - another aspect which enhance long term relaibility.

In my opinion, NG4 owners would consider converting from HDD to CF at some point of time as a mid-life maintenance step. It will, in theory and if done properly, extend both reliability and life-expectancy.

---------------------------

QNX operating system does not support ATA TRIM command: do you have more on this?

If QNX does not use ATA TRIM, there must be some mechanism through which previously used sectors can be unmarked and made available for writing data into next.

Is this a case where QNX does use ATA TRIM but PATA IDE does not provide it?

Post by **GiveMeABreak** » 30 May 2021, 17:49

The TRIM function was only introduced to support SATA. The Automotive Hard Drives in the NG4 are PATA. So putting an SSD in its place will be lead to problems.

Andrew_400 · Post by **Andrew_400** » 03 Aug 2021, 09:27

Hi I'm new to the forum having just purchased a Peugeot rcz GT 2lHdi.
I have been reading the threads about replacing the hard drive on the NG4 and the screen warning " System test leave the engine running for 25minutes"
which is the problem i bought the car with.

Being in the electronics computing industry.... I assumed it would possibly be an easy fix. Probably not.

I'm hoping Givemeabreak who must be a bit fed up by now lol could point me to getting hold of the USB software and more detail on the CF card required.

Many thanks
Andy

Andrew_400 · Post by **Andrew_400** » 03 Aug 2021, 09:35

Thanks for this information.

I will read
Digest
and attempt

Post by **GiveMeABreak** » 03 Aug 2021, 11:52

Details of the CF card I used are all back on page 1 of the thread Andy.

What firmware was installed already on your RCZ?

If you want the latest version send me a PM.

Andrew_400 · Post by **Andrew_400** » 03 Aug 2021, 14:42

Hi Marc

Many thanks for the reply and have printed out all the details at the beginning of the thread now lol

I was interested in try the "re-boot" from USB if I've understood this correctly.

I apologise for being a bit disjointed erratic as I have to admit I have never used forums before.

I will PM you when i work out how to do this lol

Thanks
Andy

Karlitos_205 · Post by **Karlitos_205** » 08 Dec 2021, 21:20

Hello, a few days ago I started updating my NG4 equipment and when I finished the update I got error 0x3019.
Can someone tell me the size of the hard drive partitions?
I have checked the hard drive on the PC and it works OK, I did a surface test and OK.
The only thing that remains for me to try is to load a copy of another hard disk to see if it recovers.
Can someone give me a copy of your hard drive to try to boot my NG4?
Thank you!!

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