Help with Diagbox data - DPF and Injectors

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colinsunderland
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Help with Diagbox data - DPF and Injectors

Post by colinsunderland »

Hi again :)

Sorry for all the questions.

Got my Diagbox last week, and finally got a chance today to have a proper look at it. For some reason the laptop won't take screenshots so had to take photos, and they aren't the best quality.

Got 2 error codes

P1445
20200727_173539.jpg
F40A (this wasn't present a few days ago when I did a quick check)
20200727_173601.jpg
I found where to see the DPF data
20200727_171556.jpg
20200727_171645.jpg
20200727_172214.jpg
20200727_173419.jpg
Looking at that the cinder count in the particle filter is the problem?
I've recently filled the DPF fluid, and reading around, some people seem to say it's probably not full, it just thinks it is, is that correct and if so (or possible) where do I find the menu in diagbox to check the exhaust differential pressure reading, which seems to be the main way of telling if its actually blocked or not? Is that correct? It's also regenerated 143 miles ago, which I thought didn't happen if it was blocked?

The second fault, the oil pressure gauge, is that something that needs doing quickly?

Just also to say, I have no faults on the dash for either of these, just showing on diagbox

I also found the injector values, theres a pretty bad rattle coming from the injectors, I have no idea what I'm looking for here, but presumably as the reading on 2 & 4 is some way from the other 2, they are likely to be the culprits?
20200727_171804.jpg
20200727_171822.jpg
Any help and advice would be appreciated :)

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Help with Diagbox data - DPF and Injectors

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, so basically, the DPF has a limited lifetime. The Engine ECU records how much additive is injected into the fuel system and this is measured in grammes. The additive contains a Cerine, which in itself cannot be burnt off, so gradually, this is the stuff that blocks the particulate filter, along with ash and other engine deposits and hydrocarbons. It is the soot that gets burnt off. So the system is saying, you've now exceeded the lifetime of the filter and it's now time to change it, based on the mileage - as you can see it says mileage remaining before change of the filter is due - zero.

Although the filter may continue to do its job a while longer and continue to regenerate, you may find that the regenerations become more frequent as the filter is not as efficient as it was.

You have a few options: You can get it replaced (they can be bought from anything upwards of £200 - aftermarket); yu can try and have it deep cleaned and hope that it isn't damaged in the process; or you could - if you are confident it is still regenerating correctly, pretend that you have changed the DPF and tell the engine ECU you have changed it. This would reset the warning, but of course, you may get fault codes later when it actually is starting to block and little warning.

The additive counter seems to say it thinks there is a little under a litre of additive in the tank - you say you topped it up, but you have to reset the additive counter. If you don't the engine ECU will not know you have topped it up and at some point will start throwing warnings and going into lockdown mode and ceasing regeneration.

colinsunderland
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Re: Help with Diagbox data - DPF and Injectors

Post by colinsunderland »

well it seems to be regenerating every 200 or so miles, is that about right or too fast? I've seen a couple of posts saying you can tell if its blocked or not by the pressure, is that correct?

I didn't reset the counter on the additive, a garage did, does the volume of the additive reservoir showing 1020 not mean thats the max? I can easily change that, I found that part of diagbox :) I filled around 3l when it was done a few thousand miles ago.

Any idea about the injectors, I'm getting them cleaned and tested next week anyway.

Thanks very much for all your help :)

Hopefully when I understand Lexia better I'll be able to help others up here as I couldn't find anyone around here when I was looking a while ago :(

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Re: Help with Diagbox data - DPF and Injectors

Post by GiveMeABreak »

So regeneration: This depends entirely on road conditions and journey type and length. The shorter the journeys, with stop start traffic at lower speeds, the longer the engine takes to heat up and less natural regeneration occurs, requiring more assisted regeneration. So if you do a lot of dual carriageway / cruising speeds / uninterrupted mileage, the longer the intervals are between assisted regeneration.

Natural regeneration occurs at about 550 °C. Assisted regeneration lowers the temperature needed to about 450 °C. So some assisted regeneration intervals can be much much higher than yours (bearing in mind the figure is the average distance between regeneration)!

Additive: The 'Volume of additive reservoir' is what the additive level was at the time of production - and this value does not change. Note that they do not fill the additive tanks up fully at the factory - how much they do fill them at production depends on the engine type fitted. So it is perfectly normal for them to only fill it up just over a litre on some engines.

The official guidance states that for the DV6 system, a maintenance refill of 1.1 litres minimum should be used, and the 3 litre kit should only be used for when the the additive tank has been replaced for example or when the particle filter has been serviced. So not sure what is going on there if you have actually filled it with 3 litres - that tells me the additive quantity has either not been reset properly, or that it is has been reset and that it is only going back to the default value of 1,020 litres as I mentioned that was filled at the factory.

In theory at least, this would mean a ridiculous situation of waiting til it went to near empty from the estimated calculated litre it thinks is remaining in the tank and then you resetting it again - and again until the 3 litres you know you have filled is finally exhausted. In future, I would then just fill it with the minimum of 1.1 litres so you know what you have put in and that estimated reading should then closely match what you have actually put in.

Oil Temperature Fault F40a: The oil level is measured up to a certain engine coolant temperature (40°C). Fault code F40A is recorded if the oil level has not been measured, as the temperature of the engine coolant was higher than the set threshold. The fault will be cleared from the list of faults in the built-in systems interface when the oil level is actually measured. It is therefore essential that you take a manual reading of the oil using the dipstick to ensure it is at the correct level and do not rely on the oil reading on the gauge when this fault is active.

Injectors Can't help you there - those values are just correction factors of the injection timing.

colinsunderland
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Re: Help with Diagbox data - DPF and Injectors

Post by colinsunderland »

Thank you Marc

I messed up with the DPF fluid, I had in my head it was a 5l bottle, and we used just over half, it wasn't, it was a 3l, so we actually put about 1.7 in, we did manage to spill a little, so possibly even only 1.5l, so you are completely correct in what you are saying :)

The regeneration sounds about right then, most my journeys are round town, so from what you are saying, the regen cycles should be over shorter periods, so looking at the stats, then I am assuming it's doing them fine, also pointing toward it not being blocked. I'm going to go out today and try to find more data while I'm actually driving, around the DPF, hopefully finding out if it does need a new one or not.

Thank you for the oil temp info, that makes sense, the car was cold, and was just idling.

Regarding the injectors, is there anything in particular I should be looking at surrounding them, the car does have around 115k on it so getting them cleaned won't hurt anyway, but would be nice to know if they are performing close to what they should be :)

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Re: Help with Diagbox data - DPF and Injectors

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I would just make sure the injector seals are ok and that there are no 'chuffing' noises - as this is the typical noise they can make if they are loose.

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Re: Help with Diagbox data - DPF and Injectors

Post by colinsunderland »

20200729_164054.jpg
20200729_164120.jpg
How do those readings look for the DPF, most of what I've read says the pressure would be 20+ at idle if it was blocked, its nowhere near that, although does go up to 89 when I put the revs up to about 3500.

On the upside I've played about with Lexia quite a bit today and have most things worked out now, apart from the readings. So if anyone in Sunderland (or surrounding areas) needs anything doing feel free to message me :)

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Re: Help with Diagbox data - DPF and Injectors

Post by colinsunderland »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 10:25
I would just make sure the injector seals are ok and that there are no 'chuffing' noises - as this is the typical noise they can make if they are loose.
Marc, would you be able to check which DPF I need please, most sites (like ECP) state there are two for my car, one says euro 4 and the other euro 5, just thinking I may as well get it replaced soon, it's going to block at some point even if it isn't now, and would rather do it before it causes damage to the injectors etc. They are only coming up at around £160, which is about what I'm being quoted to get this one cleaned, so may as well just put a new one on!
Thanks very much for all your help, it is appreciated :)

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Help with Diagbox data - DPF and Injectors

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I would seriously caution you about ECP - they have a less than poor reputation here for faulty parts on arrival, damaged or they simply fail to work.

Particle filter alone (item 11)

PSA Original Part: 173842 (TR PSA F024)
Exchange Part: 1661143380 (Eurorepar)
Or Exchange part: 174067 (Re New)
colinsunderland dpf.PNG

colinsunderland
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Re: Help with Diagbox data - DPF and Injectors

Post by colinsunderland »

Thanks very much Marc :)

Thats even better, they are only £120ish on ebay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Diesel-Parti ... SwRsJfGXlQ

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Re: Help with Diagbox data - DPF and Injectors

Post by GiveMeABreak »

No worries, good luck with it Colin

colinsunderland
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Re: Help with Diagbox data - DPF and Injectors

Post by colinsunderland »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
29 Aug 2020, 17:08
No worries, good luck with it Colin
I'm back :)
Getting the new DPF & pressure pipe fitted on Thursday and the EGR valve cleaned at the same time. Will see if that sorts the injector rattle and if not, will get the injectors cleaned and tested in a couple of weeks.

I have a feeling the clutch is on its way out. Noticed a slight slip in 4th, going up a bank with a lot of weight in the back.
Theres about 6 options, could you help me out with a part number please Marc?

What do I need to change? Just the clutch plate, or should I do the DMF at the same time, it's only about £50 more for the DMF too.
Is it worth changing it to a solid DMF? That increases the cost by another £50 though.

Had a look through autodoc and there is a myriad of different options like

BLUE PRINT Clutch Kit Two-piece Article number: ADP153061 £96

VALEO KIT2P Clutch Kit with clutch pressure plate, without central slave cylinder, with clutch plate £140

LuK 624 3527 09 Clutch Kit for engines with dual-mass flywheel, with clutch plate, without clutch release bearing, Requires special tools for mounting, Check and replace dual-mass flywheel if necessary. £165

LuK RepSet Pro Clutch Kit
for engines with dual-mass flywheel, with central slave cylinder, Requires special tools for mounting, Check and replace dual-mass flywheel if necessary. £196

VALEO 837394 Clutch Kit for engines with dual-mass flywheel, with clutch pressure plate, with central slave cylinder, with flywheel, with screw set, with lock screw set, with clutch plate, without sensor £335

So theres loads of options, do I need to replace the slave cylinder? Screw sets, lock screw set, sensor?

Whats the special tool required for mounting, anyone know please?

Thanks very much (again :) )

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Help with Diagbox data - DPF and Injectors

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok so:

1) The slip can be down to the clutch and or the DMF. It will be more obvious if you put it into 5th gear and put your foot down at lower engine revs - that's when it can be noticed more easily.

2) If replacing the clutch , general advice is to get the DMF done at the same time. These should be changed at the same time as the old DMF will not outlast a new clutch and the labour is the killer on this. You do not want the DMF breaking up.

3) Be wary of cheaper clutch and DMF parts - stick to a branded name.

4) DMF conversions - this has to be a personal matter - as opinions on these vary widely. Personally I would stick to a DMF over a solid DMF conversion - as they can never dissipate the torsional stress on the transmission systems as well as a DMF can - that is what it is designed to do. People who have had conversions have mixed opinions, but commonly: more vibration and more stress on other components that risks early failure / collateral damage.

As for parts:

DMF
colin dmf.PNG
Item (10) originally fitted with a Valeo
New: 0532W4: £779.80
Exchange: 1613938280: £362.24

Clutch
colin clutch.PNG
Item (1)
New Kit: 2052Z1: £393.52
Exchange Kit: 2051Z2: £291.70

All prices current today inc. UK 20% VAT. and exclude exchange deposits.

colinsunderland
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Re: Help with Diagbox data - DPF and Injectors

Post by colinsunderland »

thank you very much Marc, your help has been invaluable :)

When I'm out later I'll try it in 5th, although did a few miles on a dual carriageway today and didn't notice anything, so hopefully it was a one off :)

What is the special tool some parts mention, any idea? Do I need to do the cylinder too or just the clutch plate and DMF, I had a feeling the DMF would need doing too, and extra £50 isn't really that much considering how much the labour would cost if it went in a few months :)

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Re: Help with Diagbox data - DPF and Injectors

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Always replace the clutch thrust / release bearing too if / when changing the clutch.

As for the tools, in order to improve the centring of the friction plate and to eliminate engine jerks, vibrations and noise, you need to compress the clutch mechanism when tightening the fixing bolts. They use a three pointed tool with specific interchangeable centring drifts, depending on model.