Xantia H.D.i. 2.0l starter motor / battery problems

[stevestix8]

Hi All,

As ever a few problems have happened at once and I am solving them as I go.

The Cat needs replacing as welding failing, we have ordered new one for about £50.

The battery has been slowing dieing, was brand new about 8yrs ago, am getting another new one soon.

Unfortunately the starter motor appears to have stopped working now, not clicking or turning over.

Does anyone know of any easy fixes to save my existing (and original, 21yrs old) starter motor?

Have been looking at brand new ones, does anyone know what kw it should be? There are many types from 1kw to about 1,7kw all at different prices?

Thanks for any advice,

Steve

[white exec]

Replace battery first (8 years is rather good!), and also check the main battery connections. If original lead (Pb) lumps, replace them with new brass ones.
Try hopping batt+ direct to the smallest terminal on the starter motor, to check whether the motor is still working properly.
Low battery voltage or a voltage drop can cause both starter solenoid and starter motor to misbehave.

[stevestix8]

Hi again,

Thanks for response, my lumps do look like lead and so another improvement to be made there, will try the checks to see if we can save the old starter motor. New ones are still easy enough to get and not too bad on price.

As stated in first post, my Cat is old and rusted and the welding is failing around the pipe connection to the rear exhaust section. We have ordered a new Cat (again not too bad on price) and was wandering what advice any might have about fitting it?

On the Cat there is a long arm section of piping that goes up into the engine, does anyone know how easy this is to get access to? What bolt heads are on there? Have got a 500mm knuckle bar so should be able to get access and move the old bolts, they are prob original and 21yrs old so they might take some effort to move.

Any advice on changing the Cat on a 2.0l Xantia H.D.i ?

Steve

[stevestix8]

Hi All,

More progress today.

Can't get access properly to the Cat (engine end) there are 2 small nuts on 2 plates that hold a sprung thread. See pic:

Can get a turn on 1 but the back nut rotates aswell, not easy lieing on your back with it up on ramps. Might need to take it to the garage to get it up in the air to do the Cat?

We did fit the new battery and I did manage to get the old starter motor off and we checked it and it looks like the copper inside is damaged, i.e blown motor. The solanoid still appears to work. Have ordered a brand new starter motor specfic to the H.D.i. for £59 (Lucas make 1.7kw output) not bad. Will fit that when it arrives prob tues, any advice?

Otherwise I think we are on top of these latest probs lol, also ordered some new brass connectors for cables to the battery (£5), one of my old lead heads looks cracked down one side and wasnt making a good connection either.

Is gonna be like a new car when its done.

Steve

[lexi]

CAT on my C5 donk was the same. I took mine off and welded a new pipe on one end and cap welded the other joint. My CAT was not blocked and that was about 3yrs ago. It was awkward removing it of course. Good luck with work and I'm sure it will be worth it.

[white exec]

That turning bolt, with difficult to reach head...
Maybe make a saw-cut in the end you can see, and use a screwdriver to stop it turning?
Or some pointy moles shoved through the spring, to hold the bolt?
Drench the nut in WD/penetrating oil and leave to soak in.

Have has same problem a long time ago.
IIRC, the head on the bolt was an unusual affair, supposed to grip itself in place, but could lift upward and "unseat" if the spring compressed.

[stevestix8]

Hi All,

Thanks for responses, I agree I should be able to remove those small sprung bolts and install the Cat myself.

Have made more progress with the starter motor (albeit backwards progress lol). The new starter motor turned up xmas eve, and I got to installing it Xmas day, but even though it was confirmed to be the right starter motor for my variant of Xantia and the motor itself appeared to match my old motor, it didnt fit.

Reason: The Lucas starter motor I just got has 13 teeth on the cog, where the motor I took off has 12 teeth. Meaning the teeth alignment was out and the new motor didnt sit in place as it should. Anyone got any knowledge of this? different teeth? Is it connected to the kw output, i.e less kw will have fewer teeth? What kw output should mine be? The Lucas 1 was 1.7kw.

Have found many for sale with the right teeth arrangement, new for around £55, refurbished for £20, so will get the right 1. Hoping the seller will have the right 1 and replace.

On the plus side am a dab hand at removing and installing a starter motor now, wont have any problems as long as we can get the right parts!

Cheers all,

Steve

[white exec]

What a pain. Hopefully you can get hold of the correct one, Steve.

[stevestix8]

Hi All,

Quick update for anyone thats keeping up.

We returned the Lucas starter motor with 13 teeth and luckily the seller had a brand new match for the original starter motor (1.7kw Mitsubishi?) that had the 12 teeth and same shape head as the original, brand new exact match for the same £50.

I have now fitted it and it installed very well, took about 15 mins. With new battery and my Dad fitted the new brass heads for the cables and it fired up in about 2 secs, after being sat on the drive for about 2 weeks. Very nice start. The old starter motor was labouring a long time before it failed.

Anyway the car is starting better than ever and I just have to fit the Cat now. Access to those sprung bolts is the problem, I have ramps but it isnt easy lieing on your back. Can you get access to the Cat connection to the engine through the bonnet?

Thanks for any help,

Steve

[ksanturion10]

Hi Steve,
recently done those bolts, and its a little pain in the ars. Can tell you about my engine, don't know if the space around is also enough on your engine.
First, the thread side of the bolt on your picture looks OK, the head and nut both should be for 10 mm wrench. As suggested spray some penetraiting oil and wait for atleast 15-20 min. You can put 10 mm star type wrench for the head, its a little bit sinked into an additional round part, which has to be removed from the flange if you want to put new bolts. The spare kit I used had 3 different lenghts of bolts, so you must choose the same as your original. The nuts shall be tightened till they stop completely. Use some copper grease for the sealing conical ring - I've putted also a little bit over the bolt's threads, but it will disappear, when the exhaust gets hot.
Mine threads, nuts and heads were corroded and I had to cut the bolts. With a "dremel" type machine and at least 50 mm cutting disk, with the "dremel" body first, so the disk is facing you, cut through the free spaces of the spring's coils, try not to rub the spindel as it will wear out pretty fast. As you can imagine it is a little bit dangerous set up as there is the great possibility of cutting your veins and etc. So, be very careful and wear some googles and hand protection.
Nice job with the starter though. Can you share, where is your earth strap connected over the gear-box and how you mounted the serrated washers for the battery to gear-box, starter motor cable ends connections?

BR
Martin

[stevestix8]

Hi All,

Just wanted to say thanks for the advice.

I managed to get the old sprung bolts off today and the old Cat fell away nicely, corroded welding to piping around the Cat, was prob original (21 yrs this year).

Fitted the new Cat with the old sprung bolts (which still look new) and with some effort, my Dad securing the heads through the bonnet to stop the whole bolt turning, I got enough turns on them to set them up to the same position they were before.

Sounds alot better than it did and the performance is back to how it should be, was very sluggish when the old cat wasnt working properly.

Anyway thanks for advice, I prob would have paid someone to do the starter motor and to fit the Cat if it wasnt for this website.

Cheers,

Steve

[white exec]

Good to know you got it all sorted - a bit of a victory, really.
And a few bob saved!

[Sharkie]

Good to see it working, 8yr for a bat is a long long time, especially on a diesel.
You can sometimes fiddle with starters and exchange parts in a hurry, but it doesn't always work. Rusty bolts is the usual on exhaust. Usually it isn't even worth to bother unscrewing them, just cut them and replace with new.