Citroen Xantia 1.9 Turbo Diesel 1996

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

scropionking
Posts: 38
Joined: 27 Dec 2018, 13:36
x 4

Citroen Xantia 1.9 Turbo Diesel 1996

Post by scropionking »

Hi,

Just breifly been having cold starting issues with the car, so I have put in new set of glow plugs and now no start at all. I purchased some from ebay which were pure glow GP92405. I now relise that I need to buy some Beru type ones, which are 11 volts the same as I took out. But I was checking the voltage from battery yesterday and the plugs are getting over 12 volts. Would this be correct, or is the control timer meant to reduce this to under 10.5 volts as said the new Beru plugs are 11 volts. And I just don't understand how this setup works. Is each plug meant to recieve 12 volts or less. Will they burn out as the plugs are only 11 volts. The market for glow
plugs is so confussing, i've seen different type plugs listed for my car some at 5.5 amps others at 14 amps. Any help here would be very much appreciated. I have not changed them yet because of doing some checking,
and it seems the glow plugs already in there are glowing, but the car just won't start.



Thanks


Kevin
User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 7388
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 13:46
x 1450

Re: Citroen Xantia 1.9 Turbo Diesel 1996

Post by white exec »

BERU plugs are widely regarded as long-lived and high quality, and were almost certainly original quality.

Battery voltage will normally be 12+, but when all four (working) plugs are switched on (by the GP relay) the voltage will drop to 11 or so, which is why many GPs are rated at 11v. Typically, a BERU GP will pull around 9-amp, so 36A all-in for a set of four.

GPs on these cars come on a soon as the IGN is switched on, for a pre-heat period (typically less than 10 seconds), during/after which the dash warning light goes out, and the engine can be started. The timing is done by components inside the GP relay. As soon as the engine fires up, the GPs continue to operate ('post-heating') for a period depending on coolant temperature (engine bay temp on some earlier models, as measured by the GP relay itself), in order to provide a clean start with reduced smoke. The duration of the post-heat can be anything from a few seconds up to 3 minutes, depending on sensed temperature.

GPs, as you say come in many types and specs. Important to use exactly the right type/part number for the engine you have.
User avatar
Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur
Donor 2018
Posts: 1170
Joined: 22 Apr 2013, 17:24
x 181

Re: Citroen Xantia 1.9 Turbo Diesel 1996

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

try bypassing the Glowplug Relay using a jump lead direct to the Glowplug rail. Only one required and hold it on for 5 secs max.
scropionking
Posts: 38
Joined: 27 Dec 2018, 13:36
x 4

Re: Citroen Xantia 1.9 Turbo Diesel 1996

Post by scropionking »

white exec wrote:
27 Dec 2018, 15:19
BERU plugs are widely regarded as long-lived and high quality, and were alomost certainly original quality.

Battery voltage will normally be 12+, but when all four (working) plugs are switched on (by the GP relay) the voltage will drip to 11 or so, which is why many GPs are rated at 11v. Typically, a BERU GP will pull around 9-amp, so 36A all-in for a set of four.

GPs on these cars come on a soon as the IGN is switched on, for a pre-heat period (typically less than 10 seconds), during/after which the dash warning light goes out, and the engine can be started. The timing is done by components inside the GP relay. As soon as the engine fires up, the GPs continue to operate ('post-heating') for a period depending on coolant temperature (engine bay temp on some earlier models, as measured by the GP relay itself), in order to provide a clean start with reduced smoke. The duration of the post-heat can be anything from a few seconds up to 3 minutes, depending on sensed temperature.

GPs, as you say come in many types and specs. Important to use exactly the right type/part number for the engine you have.

Hi,
thankyou very much, I appreciate your technical answer, that was just want I needed. So when fitting the Beru plugs I will see a drop in the voltage or should do. Also I can hear the relay clicking off and have tested with a testing light, so it seems everything is in order there. But the 3 minute issue I have no way of checking so the relay could still be at fault. I did think that it might need to stay on longer because of the colder weather.


Thanks


Kevin
scropionking
Posts: 38
Joined: 27 Dec 2018, 13:36
x 4

Re: Citroen Xantia 1.9 Turbo Diesel 1996

Post by scropionking »

Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur wrote:
27 Dec 2018, 15:24
try bypassing the Glowplug Relay using a jump lead direct to the Glowplug rail. Only one required and hold it on for 5 secs max.


Hi,

Yes I will try this method, do I disable the glow plug original wire to test this way.


Thanks


Kevin
User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 7388
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 13:46
x 1450

Re: Citroen Xantia 1.9 Turbo Diesel 1996

Post by white exec »

One easy way of checking whether the GPs are operating (for post-heating too) is to connect a 12v test-lamp between either the GP 'rail', or the GP relay output terminal, and ground, so whenever the GPs are on, so is the lamp.
Bick
Posts: 482
Joined: 19 Feb 2006, 18:35
x 44

Re: Citroen Xantia 1.9 Turbo Diesel 1996

Post by Bick »

Many bad glow plugs on ebay - i have had a vehicle in on more than one occasion for poor starting when the owner has replaced the glow plugs purchased off ebay. On more than one occasion i have found only 1 out of the four working, other times they were working but just not getting hot enough. Beru plugs will glow white hot and are a quality GP.
scropionking
Posts: 38
Joined: 27 Dec 2018, 13:36
x 4

Re: Citroen Xantia 1.9 Turbo Diesel 1996

Post by scropionking »

Hi,

Thanks everybody for all your help it is very appreciated. So here is an update, after having checked all the power again, there is definitely power going to the glow plugs, but again I don't know if they are heating up. Is there another relay to look at on these or is the control module the only relay for the plugs. I checked with a 12 volt light and the operation is timing correctly and lighting up and then going out after several seconds. I eventually bought some easy start. And upon spraying this down the air intake she fired up instanly. So this could be either problem now, glow plugs or fuel. I have checked fuel supply upto the filter, by opening up bleed screw at the bottom. And fuel did come out so the system must be full. I suppose my next move would be to crank her over and crack open an injector to see if fuel is getting through. Don't know what else to do.
Initially the car was starting after many tries from ignition, but now absolutely nothing. Any other sugestions would be appretiated and I think you're right there Bick about cheap glow plugs, it does pay to get quality.
The car has only done 60000 miles.


Thanks


Kevin
Hell Razor5543
Donor 2021
Posts: 12015
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
x 1513

Re: Citroen Xantia 1.9 Turbo Diesel 1996

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

If there is power going to the glow plugs I would take them out and test them. There is a simple way to do this, but you MUST take care. A working glow plug gets VERY hot VERY quickly, so there must not be anything flammable nearby. You will also need to allow each glow plug enough time to cool down before handling them.

Secure the glow plug in a vice. Touch a negative lead (from a car battery) to the mounting thread of the glow plug, and the positive lead to the terminal of the glow plug. The TIP of the heating element should get white hot very quickly. If the element does not glow, or glows further down from the tip it is faulty.

Good luck, and please take care.
Online
admiral51
Donor 2021
Posts: 2379
Joined: 24 May 2007, 10:11
x 300

Re: Citroen Xantia 1.9 Turbo Diesel 1996

Post by admiral51 »

My old brain is a little fried at the moment but i am 99% sure somewhere on this forum someone had an issue with starting an XUD in the last week or so after changing GP and a wire/nut was not replaced, not saying it is the same issue but it rings a bell of sorts :?
scropionking
Posts: 38
Joined: 27 Dec 2018, 13:36
x 4

Re: Citroen Xantia 1.9 Turbo Diesel 1996

Post by scropionking »

Hi,

Right just an update purchased the correct beru plugs today, and done the two easy ones and just thought I would give her a whirl. What a difference started straight up without a mumur, lesson learned.
Will never buy cheap plugs again. Will do the two awkward ones tomorrow.


Thanks everyone for all your help


Kevin
sparksie
Donor 2016
Posts: 595
Joined: 04 Jan 2014, 23:35
x 32

Re: Citroen Xantia 1.9 Turbo Diesel 1996

Post by sparksie »

And don't forget to leave appropriate feedback!
This will keep happening as long as people don't know about it
User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 7388
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 13:46
x 1450

Re: Citroen Xantia 1.9 Turbo Diesel 1996

Post by white exec »

Result! Well done - hope the other two, when installed, give perfect starting.
You can check that the 'post-heat' is working in the same way, with your test lamp.
Bick
Posts: 482
Joined: 19 Feb 2006, 18:35
x 44

Re: Citroen Xantia 1.9 Turbo Diesel 1996

Post by Bick »

scropionking wrote:
29 Dec 2018, 16:19
Hi,

Right just an update purchased the correct beru plugs today, and done the two easy ones and just thought I would give her a whirl. What a difference started straight up without a mumur, lesson learned.
Will never buy cheap plugs again. Will do the two awkward ones tomorrow.


Thanks everyone for all your help


Kevin


Like i said i have come across quite a few people who bought glow plugs supposed to be good. Just remember to pass on the info to anyone who will listen.
scropionking
Posts: 38
Joined: 27 Dec 2018, 13:36
x 4

Re: Citroen Xantia 1.9 Turbo Diesel 1996

Post by scropionking »

Update After fiddling about for half a day managed to get them done, and starting up perfectly only thing is now the radiator has decided to start weeping between the fins, Don't you just love cars !
Anyone know where I can get one from reasonably priced, mines fitted with AC 1996 A great Begining to the New year And Happy new year to everyone.



Thanks


Kevin