Car Insurance - Debate on Modifications & Consequences

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osx
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Car Insurance - Debate on Modifications & Consequences

Post by osx »

It will invalidate your insurance too as it is considered a modification.
Plenty of 225/55 to choose from. Been using Landsail for the last two years. Always under £70 each fitted and good EU ratings for noise and wet grip (<70dB, B)

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Re: Car Insurance - Debate on Modifications & Consequences

Post by milleplod »

osx wrote:
23 Sep 2018, 12:58
It will invalidate your insurance too as it is considered a modification.
Plenty of 225/55 to choose from. Been using Landsail for the last two years. Always under £70 each fitted and good EU ratings for noise and wet grip (<70dB, B)


No, it wouldn't. Modifications don't invalidate insurance cover. :)

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Re: Car Insurance - Debate on Modifications & Consequences

Post by bobins »

Are you saying that all modifications definitely don't invalidate your insurance cover ? ........or some modifications might not invalidate your insurance cover ? ....or using non-specified tyre sizes doesn't invailidate your insurance cover ? .......or modifications don't invailidate the thrid party / RTA side of an insurance policy ? Or are you saying that modifications don't invalidate your insurance cover if you tell your insurers ?

The various insurance companies that I've looked at seem to imply that not telling them about modifiactions would/could invailidate your insurance policy, so I would assume you mean that telling your insurer about your modification doesn't invailidate your insurance. Or are the insurers misleading the punters ?

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Re: Car Insurance - Debate on Modifications & Consequences

Post by milleplod »

bobins wrote:
23 Sep 2018, 22:22
Are you saying that all modifications definitely don't invalidate your insurance cover ? ........or some modifications might not invalidate your insurance cover ? ....or using non-specified tyre sizes doesn't invailidate your insurance cover ? .......or modifications don't invailidate the thrid party / RTA side of an insurance policy ? Or are you saying that modifications don't invalidate your insurance cover if you tell your insurers ?

The various insurance companies that I've looked at seem to imply that not telling them about modifiactions would/could invailidate your insurance policy, so I would assume you mean that telling your insurer about your modification doesn't invailidate your insurance. Or are the insurers misleading the punters ?


osx said "It will invalidate your insurance too as it is considered a modification.".

There was an assumption inherent in that statement that I simply rebutted, nothing more! :wink:

Pete

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Re: Car Insurance - Debate on Modifications & Consequences

Post by bobins »

milleplod wrote:
23 Sep 2018, 21:39


No, it wouldn't. Modifications don't invalidate insurance cover. :)

Pete



So would it be more accurate (and less misleading) to say:

"No it wouldn't. That modification wouldn't invalidate my insurance" ?

Just trying to clear things up :-D

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Re: Car Insurance - Debate on Modifications & Consequences

Post by milleplod »

The assumption made was that the modification wouldn't be declared! :)


In any case, even if undeclared and a claim were to be made, it's been the case for some time now that an insurer would have to show that the claim was related to the undeclared mod before they could start looking at withdrawing cover. Even then, if the mod was one that they would have covered, albeit at an increased premium, the Ombudsman has ruled that all they can do is demand that extra premium, not void the cover.

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Re: Car Insurance - Debate on Modifications & Consequences

Post by bobins »

Whilst I realise it's a dangerous game to give comment on an open forum...... Presumably, if the modification then made the car dangerous and/or unroadworthy* then that's a whole new ballgame regarding as to whether your insurance is valid or not, or is the general presumption that you're still covered unless proved otherwise ?
* - in this example I'm thinking Carlos Fandango wide wheels with tread extending beyond the wheel arches - therefore moving parts exposed and not meeting Construction and Use.
.....and No! It's not happened to anyone I know nor am associated with :lol: I'm just trying to understand the finer points of how insurance is interpreted and what has been established :)
Last edited by bobins on 24 Sep 2018, 11:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Car Insurance - Debate on Modifications & Consequences

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I think this all boils down to what the insurance company deem to be modifications for the purposes of car insurance and then which of those require notification.

There does seem to be a lot of confusion as to the wording, as some companies require to be notified of any modifications (including factory fitted options)!

Here lies the confusion - one would expect the insurance company to have all standard equipment and any OEM options fitted at purchase by the original owner when built - and as far as I would expect, those should be covered when you provide the reg number. However this seems not to be the case with all companies. Some would say any aftermarket modifications need notifying (go faster stripes, the Carlos Fandango super wide wheels, paint job, larger wheels / tyres / uprated discs / calipers etc., as although some of these are deemed to be safety enhancements, some insurance companies see this as encouragement to speed as you think you can stop quicker in the later example.

On the other side of the coin - where does liability lie if you buy a second hand car and have no idea what the previous owner added on after - where does that leave you - and I suspect they would have a hard job trying to deny cover if it is not an obvious thing, like having a Blue Whale-sized spoiler on the back! :-D

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Re: Car Insurance - Debate on Modifications & Consequences

Post by bobins »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
24 Sep 2018, 10:51

On the other side of the coin - where does liability lie if you buy a second hand car and have no idea what the previous owner added on after - where does that leave you - and I suspect they would have a hard job trying to deny cover if it is not an obvious thing, like having a Blue Whale-sized spoiler on the back! :-D



As Homer Simpson put it so eloquently : "That's for the courts to decide" :-D

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Re: Car Insurance - Debate on Modifications & Consequences

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I don't know about the insurance but all the 'modified' cars I've driven in my long life have been right dogs, :-D I recall a Capri with yacht horns on the bonnet huge wide chrome wheels and sidewinder exhausts that had the performance and handling of a 1930s Ford 8 and harmed the eardrums if driven at more than 30 mph.

I sold it for a customer and the buyer was waiting in the street in a state of ecstasy when I delivered it. :shock:

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Re: Car Insurance - Debate on Modifications & Consequences

Post by white exec »

When you buy a secondhand car, and get it insured, you will normally be asked to declare that the vehicle is as per the manufacturer's standard spec, and has not been "modified". That will obviously be 'to the best of your knowledge', as hidden modifications might not be visible or even readily detectable.

As said, there are mods and there are mods, so some might be significant or material, and some might not be. If there is no evidence that you set out to deceive or mis-represent, then I guess even a court might think you acted reasonably.

Acceptable wheel and tyre sizes are fairly easily resolved, as the manufacturer will probably have listed their approved size options for each. In Spain, the annual ITV/MoT check includes checking that the OE-type range of approved wheel/tyre options have not been circumvented.

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Re: Car Insurance - Debate on Modifications & Consequences

Post by milleplod »

Scenario 1 - you buy a car, it's bog-standard. You fit wider tyres, then call the insurer to tell them - they charge you, say, £20 extra, job done. You have a claim, no issues at all.

Scenario 2 - you buy a car, it's bog standard. You fit wider tyres but don't tell the same insurer as above. You have a claim, an assessor enters the picture and spots the undeclared mod. He tells the insurer. Back some time ago, they could very well have declared your cover invalid and refused a payout (to you, not a 3rd party, they're always OK, but said insurer would try to recover their loss from you personally). These days, because they would have covered the mod anyway, all they can do is charge you the extra premium as in scenario 1. Plus, probably, an 'admin' fee! :lol:

Scenario 3 - you buy a car, it's bog standard. Your insurer has a clearly-stated policy of 'no mods whatsoever', but you fit wider tyres and, obviously, don't tell them. Come claim time, the insurer may refuse the claim for your own losses, pay out 3rd parties and then attempt to recoup their losses from you personally. But....they would still have to show that the claim was directly related to the modification.

Simples. :-D

Always declare anything you might change, keep a record of it, and that way you can't go wrong. Interestingly, a lot of charges for changes are imposed by brokers, not insurers. On a number of occasions, I've gone direct to my insurer with a vehicle change, for example, and paid only the difference in premium (if there was one) rather than the difference plus an 'admin' fee! Worth remembering that!

Pete

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Re: Car Insurance - Debate on Modifications & Consequences

Post by Gibbo2286 »

If only it was that simple Pete, your bar room legals might get you into a lot of bother.

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Re: Car Insurance - Debate on Modifications & Consequences

Post by milleplod »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
24 Sep 2018, 13:49
If only it was that simple Pete, your bar room legals might get you into a lot of bother.
I'm all ears. It really is that simple. Declare everything. If you don't....then the scenarios are listed above. The Ombudsman ruled so some time ago. Long gone are the days when insurers could worm out of paying up without proper cause. The problem is that their past misdeeds live on on the internet as if things haven't changed - what used to happen is held up as being what will happen. Its simply not so, and it's most definitely not 'bar room legals'! The information is out there for all to see....but it's makes for more dramatic reading to claim that death and destruction will befall people if they break 'the rules'.

No MoT...your insurance is invalid. Rubbish. No VEL...your insurance is invalid. Rubbish. Not declared a speeding ticket...your insurance is invalid. Rubbish. The list goes on, as do the myths. Under certain circumstances, your insurance may be invalid, of course, but it annoys me when people quote things 'they've heard', or tell us 'a mate's brother had it happen to him' as if its gospel.

Pete

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Re: Car Insurance - Debate on Modifications & Consequences

Post by GiveMeABreak »

This gives some idea of modification increases from the MSC, although I have seen others that vary wildly.
MS Car Insurance.png
What they should have included in the discount are important things like Dash / Rear Cameras nowadays.
Where are they getting a 'car phone' from? Unless they are still stuck in the 80s with the mobile brick and suitcase-sized battery pack? They should distinguish between a built in system so there is nothing to pinch! :roll:
mobile.PNG
mobile.PNG (97.27 KiB) Viewed 197 times
Parking Sensors - how many of us declare those and do you get a bigger discount if you have front and rear? :-D
"Lights addition or Changes" - so because I can't stand white and have changed mine for a purplish blue for the interior courtesy lights - does that now mean I'm more at risk because it could be considered I'm now driving a pimp mobile?