C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!
Moderator: RichardW
- Sloppysod
- Donor 2024
- Posts: 964
- Joined: 23 May 2015, 23:35
- Location: North Wales
- My Cars: Citroens
1 x GS, 1 x GSX (Banger raced), 1 x GSA,
2 x CX Famililles, 1 x CX GTI,
BX, XM, Xantia, C5 Mk1,
C4 (Coupe), C4 (B7),
C5 (X7)
Renault
R4 Van
Fuego
Clio Campas - x 212
Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!
Alignment is critical, I have a rebuilt one, by autosteer, in my garage and when I fitted it the steering wheel is about 75°out,and could not be corrected by tracking, i ended up with it holding on by about 2 threads on one track rod end and the other with no threads showing.
Good. Luck,
Oh, the seal is definitely fitted from the inside, and removing the shaft from inside the car would be difficult, with the piping that needs disconnecting. See photo.
Good. Luck,
Oh, the seal is definitely fitted from the inside, and removing the shaft from inside the car would be difficult, with the piping that needs disconnecting. See photo.
Stu
"Some cause happiness wherever they go, others whenever they go"Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
Major interventions
C5 Steering rack @ 58,000 mi
4 discs & Pads @ 63,585 mi
2 (AM6) oil exchanges @ 58,876 & 72,378 mi
"Some cause happiness wherever they go, others whenever they go"Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
Major interventions
C5 Steering rack @ 58,000 mi
4 discs & Pads @ 63,585 mi
2 (AM6) oil exchanges @ 58,876 & 72,378 mi
- GiveMeABreak
- Forum Admin Team
- Posts: 36996
- Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
- Location: West Wales
- My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow - x 5644
Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!
Stickyfinger wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 11:31 or £355 fitted
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272025670230 ... EBIDX%3AIT
Yes, I tried them and they didn't have any in stock Alasdair, but wouldn't have been any good for me anyway due to distance and being in Yorkshire with the leak such as it was.
Plus I wanted the mod done with the tie rod boot and the complete timing belt service and water pump / pulleys doing at the same time.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help
Marc
Marc
- GiveMeABreak
- Forum Admin Team
- Posts: 36996
- Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
- Location: West Wales
- My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow - x 5644
Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!
Sloppysod wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 11:55 Alignment is critical, I have a rebuilt one, by autosteer, in my garage and when I fitted it the steering wheel is about 75°out,and could not be corrected by tracking, i ended up with it holding on by about 2 threads on one track rod end and the other with no threads showing.
Good. Luck,
Oh, the seal is definitely fitted from the inside, and removing the shaft from inside the car would be difficult, with the piping that needs disconnecting. See photo.
The mechanic didn't have any issues with the one I had Stu - I'm pleased to say - it fitted perfectly with no mucking about. They compared the original and the replacement side by side and it was identical, so maybe they sent the wrong one to you?
Anyway I'm really pleased with it so far and went for a long spin the other day and she is driving like a dream, and no belt squeaks or pulley rattles too.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help
Marc
Marc
- Stickyfinger
- (Donor 2016)
- Posts: 10411
- Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 21:05
- Location: Somset my lovleee
- My Cars: Xantia V6 ACTIVA 3ltr 24v Manual p1
Xm 2.1TD Ph2 Exclusive
AX, little Daffodil
SAXO White Mk1. Sally - x 1280
- Contact:
Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!
Confirmed, seal leaking due to corrosion.
Note the Spall effect/Pancaking of the metal forming "flakes"
Also, take note, there is ZERO anti-corrosion coating applied to the shaft, a massive error and one that reflects the very very low standards of quality control applied to this part by Citroen. Or: could it be they like the money ?, they will of course, sell you a new one at a massive cost which has the SAME PROBLEM !
You can see the main problem here, the use of cheap high carbon steel rather than a better quality high chrome one.
Note the Spall effect/Pancaking of the metal forming "flakes"
Also, take note, there is ZERO anti-corrosion coating applied to the shaft, a massive error and one that reflects the very very low standards of quality control applied to this part by Citroen. Or: could it be they like the money ?, they will of course, sell you a new one at a massive cost which has the SAME PROBLEM !
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
- white exec
- Moderating Team
- Posts: 7445
- Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 12:46
- Location: Sayalonga, Malaga, Spain
- My Cars: 1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive hatch RHD
1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!
. . . And don't live in GU postcode! What have the good folk of Guildford done to be excluded from this absolute bargain??
Chris
- Sloppysod
- Donor 2024
- Posts: 964
- Joined: 23 May 2015, 23:35
- Location: North Wales
- My Cars: Citroens
1 x GS, 1 x GSX (Banger raced), 1 x GSA,
2 x CX Famililles, 1 x CX GTI,
BX, XM, Xantia, C5 Mk1,
C4 (Coupe), C4 (B7),
C5 (X7)
Renault
R4 Van
Fuego
Clio Campas - x 212
Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!
Does anyone know if it is all C5's (X7) or just right drive versions?
Stu
"Some cause happiness wherever they go, others whenever they go"Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
Major interventions
C5 Steering rack @ 58,000 mi
4 discs & Pads @ 63,585 mi
2 (AM6) oil exchanges @ 58,876 & 72,378 mi
"Some cause happiness wherever they go, others whenever they go"Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
Major interventions
C5 Steering rack @ 58,000 mi
4 discs & Pads @ 63,585 mi
2 (AM6) oil exchanges @ 58,876 & 72,378 mi
- Paul-R
- Donor 2023
- Posts: 6916
- Joined: 07 May 2009, 16:24
- Location: Wirral, NW England; Vaucluse 84, France
- Lexia Available: Yes
- My Cars: 2015 1.6 Blue HDi 120 Peugeot 308 Active SW
2013 2.0 HDi 163 C5 Exclusive Tourer
2003 2.0 HDi 110 C5 Exclusive Estate (Gone)
2001 2.0 HDi 90 Xsara Estate (Gone) - x 1369
Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!
What a good question. Does anyone visit any of the LHD countries' forums?
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.
Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson
Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson
-
- Posts: 32
- Joined: 29 May 2018, 20:59
- Location: Tallinn, Estonia
- My Cars: C5 X7 Tourer 1.6THP Exclusive 2012
- x 2
Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!
I have a dealership service appt tmrw morning (Estonia, LHD) and will ask + inspect my car, I'll post findings here later.
Although I already know from an article one of their more active service guys posted for a car magazine a while back - he specifically mentioned steering racks as one of the shortlist items to fail on used C5s.
- bobins
- Donor 2023
- Posts: 5697
- Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
- Location: Midhurst, West Sussex
- My Cars: Kia Sportage
Mazda BT-50
Land Rover SIII SWB
V-F-R800
SL320
MX5 - x 2871
Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!
Marc posted a couple of weeks ago about a guy on a French forum having his rack replaced so, presuming he's a French chap with a LHD drive car, it would seem that all the C5 X7 suffer the problem.
GiveMeABreak wrote: ↑30 May 2018, 12:01 It seems a chap on a French Forum with a 2011 X7 had his rack replaced which again failed like mine did and he complained to Citroen about the quality of the components used and even though it was a 2011 model they replaced it with 75% off the bill!
Sadly no longer a C5 owner
- Paul-R
- Donor 2023
- Posts: 6916
- Joined: 07 May 2009, 16:24
- Location: Wirral, NW England; Vaucluse 84, France
- Lexia Available: Yes
- My Cars: 2015 1.6 Blue HDi 120 Peugeot 308 Active SW
2013 2.0 HDi 163 C5 Exclusive Tourer
2003 2.0 HDi 110 C5 Exclusive Estate (Gone)
2001 2.0 HDi 90 Xsara Estate (Gone) - x 1369
Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!
If this is an official dealer then don't expect an honest answer. I enquired with the service manager at my Citroen dealer about a year ago about C5 racks and he claimed to not know of any problem with them.
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.
Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson
Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson
-
- Posts: 32
- Joined: 29 May 2018, 20:59
- Location: Tallinn, Estonia
- My Cars: C5 X7 Tourer 1.6THP Exclusive 2012
- x 2
Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!
Correct, expectations are low by default.
Rather my question is, how can we escalate this towards an official recall Europe / EU / world-wide? Doing a short googling session for a process description now.
EDIT interesting: https://car-recalls.eu/2017-recalls/cit ... dels-2017/
> Jun 2017: The pinion of the steering valve on the steering rack has been incorrectly fixed.
> https://car-recalls.eu/listing/citroen- ... urer-2016/
> https://car-recalls.eu/listing/citroen-jumpy-2016-2/
EDIT2 https://car-recalls.eu/peugeot-and-citr ... ure-22-18/
> Peugeot 4007 and Citroën C-Crosser are related models produced in the years 2007 – 2012. All without exception have a problem with the windscreen-wipers. Water can enter the vent mechanism for the front windscreen-wiper motor, which could result in the failing because of internal corrosion. The problem is so serious that both carmakers are actually recalling virtually whole production of both models.
Last edited by lkraav on 10 Jun 2018, 15:45, edited 2 times in total.
- bobins
- Donor 2023
- Posts: 5697
- Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
- Location: Midhurst, West Sussex
- My Cars: Kia Sportage
Mazda BT-50
Land Rover SIII SWB
V-F-R800
SL320
MX5 - x 2871
Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!
If official Citroen representatives are happy to claim that there isn't a problem with the steering racks failing, then one can only assume they have been designed to do that and therefore it isn't actually a problem.
Sadly no longer a C5 owner
- Stickyfinger
- (Donor 2016)
- Posts: 10411
- Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 21:05
- Location: Somset my lovleee
- My Cars: Xantia V6 ACTIVA 3ltr 24v Manual p1
Xm 2.1TD Ph2 Exclusive
AX, little Daffodil
SAXO White Mk1. Sally - x 1280
- Contact:
Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!
With the cars that run HA3+ this matter really should be regarded as a "Saftey Critical Part", if the seal decided to give up at speed the car would dump its LHM and suffer rapid power steering failure.
One would hope that would be regarded as a rather important safety matter.
I would be happy to join in any actions/activity/pressure in an attempt to get a re-call. I will be writing to Citroen on the matter, just to put it on record that I am holding them responsible for the costs of a replacement rack and the fitting charges. I do this with little hope (none) of them saying "oh, OK we will pay" but so, in the event of a recall they would have to either fit their new ones of pay-up. I would at least have some basis for a small claim on them. (Not much hope, but always keep the bills just in-case)
There is also a thread on C5 Owners Forum on the very same problem.
One would hope that would be regarded as a rather important safety matter.
I would be happy to join in any actions/activity/pressure in an attempt to get a re-call. I will be writing to Citroen on the matter, just to put it on record that I am holding them responsible for the costs of a replacement rack and the fitting charges. I do this with little hope (none) of them saying "oh, OK we will pay" but so, in the event of a recall they would have to either fit their new ones of pay-up. I would at least have some basis for a small claim on them. (Not much hope, but always keep the bills just in-case)
There is also a thread on C5 Owners Forum on the very same problem.
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
-
- Posts: 32
- Joined: 29 May 2018, 20:59
- Location: Tallinn, Estonia
- My Cars: C5 X7 Tourer 1.6THP Exclusive 2012
- x 2
Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!
Stickyfinger wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 15:57 With the cars that run HA3+ this matter really should be regarded as a "Saftey Critical Part", if the seal decided to give up at speed the car would dump its LHM and suffer rapid power steering failure.
One would hope that would be regarded as a rather important safety matter.
I would be happy to join in any actions/activity/pressure in an attempt to get a re-call. I will be writing to Citroen on the matter, just to put it on record that I am holding them responsible for the costs of a replacement rack and the fitting charges. I do this with little hope (none) of them saying "oh, OK we will pay" but so, in the event of a recall they would have to either fit their new ones of pay-up. I would at least have some basis for a small claim on them. (Not much hope, but always keep the bills just in-case)
There is also a thread on C5 Owners Forum on the very same problem.
I like this strategy. Let's also get EU-level consumer protection agencies involved and find a way to register enough cases with them?
- bobins
- Donor 2023
- Posts: 5697
- Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
- Location: Midhurst, West Sussex
- My Cars: Kia Sportage
Mazda BT-50
Land Rover SIII SWB
V-F-R800
SL320
MX5 - x 2871
Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!
When Marc complained to Citroen UK about the failure of his second rack, this was their response :
Presumably UK consumer rights still apply to cars and a purchaser can still have a reasonable expectation that an item they've bought is fit for purpose ? Steering rack failures are not an isolated case and can in no way be blamed on the way an individual uses or cares for a car - they fail due to substandard materials used during production.
The DVSA definition of a safety issue warranting a safety recall is : "Safety defect - A safety related defect is a failure due to design and/or construction, which is likely to affect the safe operation of the product without prior warning to the user and may pose a significant risk to the driver, occupants and others. This defect will be common to a number of products that have been sold for use in the United Kingdom."
Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... f-practice
The DVSA only last week received a bollocking for not doing their job properly in relation to BMW recalls with their self immolating electrics. I wonder if the DVSA might now take a bit more notice of safety related issues in cars ?
"What doesn’t count as a serious safety defect
Things aren’t classed as a serious safety defect if:
-they can be found during routine maintenance and servicing
-you’re warned about them by warning lights, noticeable changes in handling and unusual noises
-they’re caused by you misusing the vehicle, eg overloading your vehicle causing a tyre failure"
Source: https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and- ... ety-defect
GiveMeABreak wrote: ↑24 May 2018, 20:04Thank you for your email about the steering rack on your Citroën C5. I'm sorry to hear that you've been having this issue.
As you can appreciate, there are many external factors that can cause the failure of a part. For this reason, we don't give an expected life span on any parts in our vehicles.
Due to the age of your vehicle, we're unable to look into this further.
I'm sorry we couldn't help more but thanks again for contacting Citroën customer care."
Presumably UK consumer rights still apply to cars and a purchaser can still have a reasonable expectation that an item they've bought is fit for purpose ? Steering rack failures are not an isolated case and can in no way be blamed on the way an individual uses or cares for a car - they fail due to substandard materials used during production.
The DVSA definition of a safety issue warranting a safety recall is : "Safety defect - A safety related defect is a failure due to design and/or construction, which is likely to affect the safe operation of the product without prior warning to the user and may pose a significant risk to the driver, occupants and others. This defect will be common to a number of products that have been sold for use in the United Kingdom."
Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... f-practice
The DVSA only last week received a bollocking for not doing their job properly in relation to BMW recalls with their self immolating electrics. I wonder if the DVSA might now take a bit more notice of safety related issues in cars ?
"What doesn’t count as a serious safety defect
Things aren’t classed as a serious safety defect if:
-they can be found during routine maintenance and servicing
-you’re warned about them by warning lights, noticeable changes in handling and unusual noises
-they’re caused by you misusing the vehicle, eg overloading your vehicle causing a tyre failure"
Source: https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and- ... ety-defect
Sadly no longer a C5 owner