Citroen c5 boot fails to close

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CITROENC5100
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Citroen c5 boot fails to close

Post by CITROENC5100 »

Hello, so i have got new model of citroen c5 tourer 2008. It have electric tailgate, it worked perfectly but then it just couldn't close it. Close half way then beeps 2 times and comes back up. applying pressure doesn't help, then it just doesn't lock. My battery is new bought like 2 months ago "VARTA" so i don't think so that it's low battery problem. Any thoughts how to solve this?
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Citroen c5 boot fails to close

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Hi and welcome.

The only faults I have that reference 2 Beeps are the following faults. I will try and see if I can find anything else out, but can I suggest you check around the striker plate to make sure there is nothing in there and also around the tailgate seal area.

Once the system is programmed, the programming is always remembered even if the battery is replaced - so there shouldn't need to be anything done on that front. If there is any more information you have on this as to what happens from unlocking the car or opening the tailgate remotely, the exact beeps and what happens when you try and close it with the button on the boot - this may help further.

This is the 2 backup modes for the conditions you describe:
  1. Fault: Motorised tailgate linear potentiometer
    The motorised tailgate ECU commands the motorised tailgate to move, then stops the movement and emits a sound alert (2 beeps), the mechanism is declutched.
  2. Fault: Motorised striker plate (Striker jammed in)
    The motorised tailgate remains operational, but complete closing is not guaranteed in certain cases (windows/doors closed) ; The tailgate will come back up by 15/20° and emit a sound alert (2 beeps)
Some further info:
Detection of an obstacle when opening If the motorised tailgate ECU detects a diminution of the opening speed (indirect detection of an obstacle), the action is stopped and the tailgate recloses by about 5 degrees.

If during this closing movement of 5 degrees, the motorised tailgate ECU again detects an obstacle, the motorised tailgate is stopped without reversal of the movement and then goes into declutched manual mode (The motorised tailgate ECU emits 2 beeps to indicate the declutching).
Detection of an obstacle when closingIf the motorised tailgate ECU detects a diminution of the closing speed (indirect detection of an obstacle) or an obstacle compressing the sensitive seal (direct detection of an obstacle), the action is stopped and the tailgate reopens by about 15 degrees.

If during this opening movement of 15 degrees, the motorised tailgate ECU again detects an obstacle, the motorised tailgate is stopped without reversal of the movement and then goes into declutched manual mode (The motorised tailgate ECU emits 2 beeps to indicate the declutching).
So it sounds on this basis that the tailgate is going into declutching mode as it thinks there is an obstacle somewhere.

This is likely to be something touching or has been previously trapped pressing into the pressure sensitive seal, which is still causing it to think there is something there and so stops the tailgate by declutching it; or there is something causing resistance detected by the potentiometer - which again stops the closing / opening action.

Also the voltage issue can be an issue - I know you have replaced the battery - but check that it is actually being charged.

If the operation voltage is 8 V - or more than 16 V:- The system is not operational, declutching is not possible.
If it is between 8 V and 10.5 V:- The system is not operational, only declutching is possible.

This last bit is just for you to check - but as you have a beep sequence, first check the blockage and seal integrity.
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Re: Citroen c5 boot fails to close

Post by CITROENC5100 »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 31 May 2018, 10:11 Hi and welcome.

The only faults I have that reference 2 Beeps are the following faults. I will try and see if I can find anything else out, but can I suggest you check around the striker plate to make sure there is nothing in there and also around the tailgate seal area.

Once the system is programmed, the programming is always remembered even if the battery is replaced - so there shouldn't need to be anything done on that front. If there is any more information you have on this as to what happens from unlocking the car or opening the tailgate remotely, the exact beeps and what happens when you try and close it with the button on the boot - this may help further.

This is the 2 backup modes for the conditions you describe:
  1. Fault: Motorised tailgate linear potentiometer
    The motorised tailgate ECU commands the motorised tailgate to move, then stops the movement and emits a sound alert (2 beeps), the mechanism is declutched.
  2. Fault: Motorised striker plate (Striker jammed in)
    The motorised tailgate remains operational, but complete closing is not guaranteed in certain cases (windows/doors closed) ; The tailgate will come back up by 15/20° and emit a sound alert (2 beeps)
Some further info:
Detection of an obstacle when opening If the motorised tailgate ECU detects a diminution of the opening speed (indirect detection of an obstacle), the action is stopped and the tailgate recloses by about 5 degrees.

If during this closing movement of 5 degrees, the motorised tailgate ECU again detects an obstacle, the motorised tailgate is stopped without reversal of the movement and then goes into declutched manual mode (The motorised tailgate ECU emits 2 beeps to indicate the declutching).
Detection of an obstacle when closingIf the motorised tailgate ECU detects a diminution of the closing speed (indirect detection of an obstacle) or an obstacle compressing the sensitive seal (direct detection of an obstacle), the action is stopped and the tailgate reopens by about 15 degrees.

If during this opening movement of 15 degrees, the motorised tailgate ECU again detects an obstacle, the motorised tailgate is stopped without reversal of the movement and then goes into declutched manual mode (The motorised tailgate ECU emits 2 beeps to indicate the declutching).
So it sounds on this basis that the tailgate is going into declutching mode as it thinks there is an obstacle somewhere.

This is likely to be something touching or has been previously trapped pressing into the pressure sensitive seal, which is still causing it to think there is something there and so stops the tailgate by declutching it; or there is something causing resistance detected by the potentiometer - which again stops the closing / opening action.

Also the voltage issue can be an issue - I know you have replaced the battery - but check that it is actually being charged.

If the operation voltage is 8 V - or more than 16 V:- The system is not operational, declutching is not possible.
If it is between 8 V and 10.5 V:- The system is not operational, only declutching is possible.

This last bit is just for you to check - but as you have a beep sequence, first check the blockage and seal integrity.


thanks for reply but now my tailgate won't even try to open/close now it only beeps 2 times and doesn't lift at all. I will try to check everything that you said tomorow. Again thanks for information.
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Re: Citroen c5 boot fails to close

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, also be aware that your car will go into economy mode. This can limit power including to the motorised boot if it engages. A good way to tell is try putting the radio on with the ignition off and see how long that lasts before the radio switches off. If it’s only a couple of minutes or less then that’s another likely reason. If you look at the previous post and note the bit about the voltage needs for the system to operate.
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Re: Citroen c5 boot fails to close

Post by CITROENC5100 »

Hi again, update what i have done. I change all mechanism of boot and it works fine but sometimes boot wont open and beeps 2 times, also sometimes it wont close (not often) maybe i should adjust something on lock mechanism or somewhere else.
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Re: Citroen c5 boot fails to close

Post by GiveMeABreak »

There’s nothing to adjust, the ECU is controlling the opening and closing based on voltage available, perceived obstacles (whether direct blockage or resistance) and is telling you via the beeps that I have described in the diagram. What happens if you leave the engine running, get out and open the boot? Does pressing the close button then work? If not then it is not the battery. So either there is insignificant voltage getting through or it is going into back up mode because of a detected obstacle. Is it possible you have at some point trapped something that was pressing against the seal that has maybe damaged the pressure detection component?
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Re: Citroen c5 boot fails to close

Post by old'uns »

when i had my X7 it was a work car so the tailgate was forever up and down so got used to doing it manually as Eco mode would kick in.
definitely a 2 handed job, does yours manually open and close OK?
mine threw a few errors with Striker plate occasionally, loosen plate off and nudge towards rear bumper slightly and see what happens?

i did have my motor/cables apart at some stage, do-able but fiddly with the cable ends.
currently '06 C5 2.0 HDi auto estate Tip run and France trekker - well should be!! occupied currently by '10 Superb DSG 170 elegance- whistles and bells that work
CITROENC5100
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Re: Citroen c5 boot fails to close

Post by CITROENC5100 »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 05 Jun 2018, 09:32 There’s nothing to adjust, the ECU is controlling the opening and closing based on voltage available, perceived obstacles (whether direct blockage or resistance) and is telling you via the beeps that I have described in the diagram. What happens if you leave the engine running, get out and open the boot? Does pressing the close button then work? If not then it is not the battery. So either there is insignificant voltage getting through or it is going into back up mode because of a detected obstacle. Is it possible you have at some point trapped something that was pressing against the seal that has maybe damaged the pressure detection component?


when i leave the engine running closing and opening button works, also i don't think that i have trapped something. Everything looks good just doesn't work well :? .
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Re: Citroen c5 boot fails to close

Post by CITROENC5100 »

old'uns wrote: 05 Jun 2018, 13:36 when i had my X7 it was a work car so the tailgate was forever up and down so got used to doing it manually as Eco mode would kick in.
definitely a 2 handed job, does yours manually open and close OK?
mine threw a few errors with Striker plate occasionally, loosen plate off and nudge towards rear bumper slightly and see what happens?

i did have my motor/cables apart at some stage, do-able but fiddly with the cable ends.

Yes everything works perfectly manually but when i close boot manually it doesn't lock so everyone can come in from back :-D
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Re: Citroen c5 boot fails to close

Post by GiveMeABreak »

So it is working then and nothing is trapped - so like old'uns ^ suggested, try repositioning the strike plate and cleaning up inside there - make sure there is no debris inside the strike plate preventing it from closing properly. That might do the job.
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old'uns
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Re: Citroen c5 boot fails to close

Post by old'uns »

an old thread, similar problem.....

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=53314&p=461779#p461779
currently '06 C5 2.0 HDi auto estate Tip run and France trekker - well should be!! occupied currently by '10 Superb DSG 170 elegance- whistles and bells that work
sims29
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Re: Citroen c5 boot fails to close

Post by sims29 »

I have read topic 60776 which may have resolved my opening/closing problem BUT this very clearly says:-

"Important!: Please do not apply this fix to cars with the Stop & Start system fitted."

Is it possible to replace the existing powered lift struts with simple non-electric gas struts?

John
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Citroen c5 boot fails to close

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The motorised tailgate version contains lots of other components, so there is no way I can advise to be honest, as the struts are different sizes and so are the strut bolts for each type.

I mentioned that part in my Economy Mode guide as the BCSU does inform the BSI about battery data to fine tune the energy management, and with Stop Start systems that info in conjunction with the energy accumulator ECU can affect the operation as to whether Stop Start is permitted, which depends on many conditions and factors. If the BCSU is not proving sensor data about the condition and temperature of the main vehicle battery to the BSI, then it may have an adverse impact on normal operation.

If you have Stop Start fitted on your X7, then you may just need to replace the main vehicle battery if it is aged 5 years or older, as these vehicle have a lot of electronics and some which operate without the ignition on like the alarm monitoring, the Central Locking system that waits for a signal to be received, the EGR cleaning operation, the air conditioning system motor flaps, the TPMS system that polls the wheel sensors periodically, the Head Unit / Telematics unit that will remain on or the cooling fan operating inside for a few minutes, the suspension pump motor for hydraulically suspended vehicles etc. etc.

Giving the the main battery a maintenance charge periodically will help maintain condition.

Also, be aware that the Battery Charge Status Unit can take some time to calibrate if the battery has been disconnected. This can take 4+ hours as long as the car doors are not opened or unlocked, but it prefers an overnight period to do it's stuff.

Just a few thoughts.
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Re: Citroen c5 boot fails to close

Post by sims29 »

Thank you for your quick response Marc, much appreciated.

The battery is only a couple of years old and I have had the care since new - well, since it was released by Citroen as one of the last pre-registered C5 Tourers. I am retired and do very little driving in congested area and the Stop/Start function has hardly ever kicked in since new.

The problem has got worse as recently I have mainly been on motorway and open roads with little acceleration/deceleration cycles. Excellent for the fuel consumption 55 to 58 mpg but at the end of a 40 mile trip the tailgate will open once and may not self close. On the other hand, if after refusing to open the tailgate I start and immediately stop the engine the tailgate will open and close once or twice.

I guess that I will have to carry on exercising my biceps heaving on a reluctant tailgate. This must be one of the features that give the Exclusive its model name.

Thank you again.

John
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Re: Citroen c5 boot fails to close

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, I understand, so like you, I have Stop Start on my Aircross, but the later systems don't have the separate energy accumulator (capacitor) and additional components, it works from the main car battery only. With a new battery Stop and Start will work fine until the battery reaches 80% of charge. After that, it won't work anymore and stays like that. I already had a battery replaced under warranty as it never worked. This was the issue.

The main reason in my case is that I may only use the car once a week and when I do, it may be a 6 or 36 mile round trip. So this won't be enough to run the car and replenish the battery. What I will be doing when the weather gets a bit better is to give it an on-vehicle charge with a smart charger. This usually gets it back on track for a few more weeks.
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