Oops!

This is the place for posts that don't fit into any other category.

Moderator: RichardW

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49526
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6160
Contact:

Re: Oops!

Post by CitroJim »

Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur wrote: 28 Feb 2018, 16:05 ...are these the same 'someones' who walk or use a Bicycle where possible for short journeys;


I could be labelled as one of them but rest assured I do it for totally different reasons ;)
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
User avatar
Michel
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2207
Joined: 29 May 2017, 13:50
Location: Nothanks
My Cars: Some cars and a motorbike
x 659

Re: Oops!

Post by Michel »

Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur wrote: 28 Feb 2018, 16:05 I don't believe all this propaganda about Diesels, it seems that, as usual, someone's jumped on a band-wagon and chosen to be a Sheep....


What propaganda? It's clear as day that the things are filthy and stink - older ones at least. I've just bought an 04 plate Multipla JTD. Standing around it this morning while it was ticking over as I deiced it I was genuinely shocked by how bad the fumes smelt and how much grot comes out compared to the petrol C1 (which does similar mpg) and the 1.8 Petrol Picasso. I think it'll be sold very soon. Foul it is!
User avatar
van ordinaire
(Donor 2017)
Posts: 2537
Joined: 23 Jun 2015, 14:45
Location: Live & work in London but weekend in Devon (or do I now live in Torbay & work in London?)
My Cars: Citroens:-
'81 2CV Club (quietly sleeping in a parallel universe)
'05 (yes, really) C15
'97 Xantia Exclusive estate
others:-
'96 Jeep Cherokee Limited - the "donor"
'99 Jeep Cherokee Orvis - the green one
'97 Jeep Cherokee Limited - the red one
'99 Cadillac Seville STS
'96 Cadillac Eldorado ETC
& numerous what might be described as abandoned projects!
x 405

Re: Oops!

Post by van ordinaire »

A couple of points worth bearing in mind:-
the environmental damage is done once any car is made, regardless of the means of propulsion.
diesel engines don't cause pollution, the fuel they were desidned to run on does - there ARE alternatives!
how can shipping buses from China be environmentally sound?
Citroens:-
'81 2CV Club :cry:
'05 C15 :!:
'97 Xantia Exclusive estate [-o<
others:-
Jeep XJ Cherokees x 3 :?
'96 Cadillac Eldorado
'99 Cadillac STS :|
& the numerous "abandoned projects" #-o
User avatar
bobins
Donor 2023
Posts: 5697
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
Location: Midhurst, West Sussex
My Cars: Kia Sportage
Mazda BT-50
Land Rover SIII SWB
V-F-R800
SL320
MX5
x 2871

Re: Oops!

Post by bobins »

I was watching a bit on the news the other night and they were highlighting how 'business' flows around Europe. They featured a humble car engine crankshaft and the route it takes from manufacture to fitting in an engine. Basically, it criss-crosses Europe several times before it's finally fitted to the engine. I'm sure the manufacturers can show all sorts of paperwork and ticked boxes to prove it's an environmentally sound way to make and engine..... I'm sure the reality is somewhat different though :roll:
Sadly no longer a C5 owner :(
User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 7445
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 12:46
Location: Sayalonga, Malaga, Spain
My Cars: 1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive hatch RHD
1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S
x 1752

Re: Oops!

Post by white exec »

van ordinaire wrote: 28 Feb 2018, 20:46 How can shipping buses from China be environmentally sound?
That would make a superb A-level science/economics question!
I think it rather depends on the perspective and standpoint: where is the pollution produced, and what is the local impact, and the local environmental benefit?
It does seem a crying shame that "the country that leads the world" cannot even manage to build something as simple as an electric bus. It's not as if we never knew how to do it, and it isn't rocket science. Perhaps we're just waiting for the Chinese to set up their UK plant?
Chris
User avatar
bobins
Donor 2023
Posts: 5697
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
Location: Midhurst, West Sussex
My Cars: Kia Sportage
Mazda BT-50
Land Rover SIII SWB
V-F-R800
SL320
MX5
x 2871

Re: Oops!

Post by bobins »

white exec wrote: 28 Feb 2018, 21:01
It does seem a crying shame that "the country that leads the world" cannot even manage to build something as simple as an electric bus. It's not as if we never knew how to do it, and it isn't rocket science. Perhaps we're just waiting for the Chinese to set up their UK plant?


I think we could easily make a superb electric bus, the problem is that we've not got a hope in hell of making it cheap enough. In the end, money is the most important thing..... it shouldn't be, but it is.
Sadly no longer a C5 owner :(
User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 24563
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 10:40
Location:
My Cars:
x 6866

Re: Oops!

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

I came across an example of a big locomotive contract from back in the 1990's, a bit controversial at the time, following privatisdation of British Rail freight operations in 1996. The Group EWS acquired under their control 93% of UK Rail Freight, and placed a contract with North American based EMU for 250 locomotives, which they judged to be more reliable, and have lower major rebuild costs, and longer time periods between rebuilds than comparable locomotives available in the UK.

So the locomotives were produced at EMU's plant at London Ontario Canada and shipped on completion at the rate of 11 per week to Newport Docks, commisssioned virtually on leaving the ship and put into service.

Intuitively, you would expect that with the UK's history of constructing rail locomotives, that the price and specification could have been met by a UK manufacturer, and the price advantage of not having to ship 250 heavy Locomotives thousands of miles by sea from Canada should surely have given them the edge.

I wonder if Shipping Costs must just be too cheap! Ditto with the import of cars/buses/ bits of locos to be assembled in the uk. Surely it must cost a fortune to ship these items from the far east to the UK.

Regards Neil
Only One AA Box left
687 Trinity, Jersey
User avatar
bobins
Donor 2023
Posts: 5697
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
Location: Midhurst, West Sussex
My Cars: Kia Sportage
Mazda BT-50
Land Rover SIII SWB
V-F-R800
SL320
MX5
x 2871

Re: Oops!

Post by bobins »

NewcastleFalcon wrote: 28 Feb 2018, 21:24
I wonder if Shipping Costs must just be too cheap! Ditto with the import of cars/buses/ bits of locos to be assembled in the uk. Surely it must cost a fortune to ship these items from the far east to the UK.

Regards Neil


There's probably a tax dodge / government subsidy / creative accountancy that caters for the shipping cost :?
Sadly no longer a C5 owner :(
MikeT
Posts: 4809
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
2008 C5 X7 1.6HDI VTR+ Saloon
x 231

Re: Oops!

Post by MikeT »

I wonder how the last few days would have panned out without diesel engines.
User avatar
Sloppysod
Donor 2024
Posts: 965
Joined: 23 May 2015, 23:35
Location: North Wales
My Cars: Citroens
1 x GS, 1 x GSX (Banger raced), 1 x GSA,
2 x CX Famililles, 1 x CX GTI,
BX, XM, Xantia, C5 Mk1,
C4 (Coupe), C4 (B7),
C5 (X7)

Renault
R4 Van
Fuego
Clio Campas
x 212

Re: Oops!

Post by Sloppysod »

white exec wrote: 28 Feb 2018, 08:06 ............. If Toyota and VW aren't careful, they'll end up simply being leapfrogged by BYD - and that may be no bad thing..........

Good point Chris, once I found out who/what BYD was.

BYD = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Auto
Stu 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

"Some cause happiness wherever they go, others whenever they go"Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)

Major interventions
C5 Steering rack @ 58,000 mi
4 discs & Pads @ 63,585 mi
2 (AM6) oil exchanges @ 58,876 & 72,378 mi
User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 24563
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 10:40
Location:
My Cars:
x 6866

Re: Oops!

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Sloppysod wrote: 02 Mar 2018, 12:03
Good point Chris, once I found out who/what BYD was.


Embrionic topic started on China's Car Companies-What do you know? for me not much at the moment, but its a decent receptacle for finding out more.

Regards Neil
Only One AA Box left
687 Trinity, Jersey
User avatar
bobins
Donor 2023
Posts: 5697
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
Location: Midhurst, West Sussex
My Cars: Kia Sportage
Mazda BT-50
Land Rover SIII SWB
V-F-R800
SL320
MX5
x 2871

Re: Oops!

Post by bobins »

MikeT wrote: 02 Mar 2018, 11:21 I wonder how the last few days would have panned out without diesel engines.



Presumably all BEVs are more than capable of keeping occupants of a stranded car warm overnight (5-8 hours ?) and drive to a charging point when the road gets cleared ? Serious question - by the way ! I've no idea what sort of charge the various heating / aircons take out of the batteries. Anyone able to put some figures to it regarding heating the inside of the car vs range attrition ? Is it actually so small that it's of no concern ?
Sadly no longer a C5 owner :(
User avatar
EDC5
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 1216
Joined: 01 Jul 2017, 21:48
Location: N. Wales
My Cars: Citroen C5 RHR AM6
x 120

Re: Oops!

Post by EDC5 »

bobins wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 18:43
MikeT wrote: 02 Mar 2018, 11:21 I wonder how the last few days would have panned out without diesel engines.



Presumably all BEVs are more than capable of keeping occupants of a stranded car warm overnight (5-8 hours ?) and drive to a charging point when the road gets cleared ? Serious question - by the way ! I've no idea what sort of charge the various heating / aircons take out of the batteries. Anyone able to put some figures to it regarding heating the inside of the car vs range attrition ? Is it actually so small that it's of no concern ?


Depends on how the heat is produced.

If it's via a heat pump (like the Nissan Leaf ) then it shouldn't be too bad but if it's from direct resistance heating (like Citroen C-Zero) then you'll quickly burn through the battery charge.
User avatar
Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur
(Donor 2018)
Posts: 1168
Joined: 22 Apr 2013, 17:24
Location: South Midlands / M4 / M5
My Cars: 405 naD Est
x 232

Re: Oops!

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

NewcastleFalcon wrote: 28 Feb 2018, 21:24 EWS placed a contract with North American based EMU for 250 locomotives, which they judged to be more reliable, and have lower major rebuild costs, and longer time periods between rebuilds than comparable locomotives available in the UK.

I wonder if Shipping Costs must just be too cheap! Ditto with the import of cars/buses/ bits of locos to be assembled in the uk. Surely it must cost a fortune to ship these items from the far east to the UK.
there's certainly some weird stuff going on with the railways when stuff like that is true. What happened to our industry?!

I was watching something or other a while back where one of the largest modern container ships was mentioned; its capacity was simply mind-boggling and apparently the cost of transporting a DVD Player by sea from China, worked out at less than 2 first class stamps. Similarly, I used to know the cost of transporting a 505 Estate (sizeable beastie) UK to Africa, a few years back; I don't recall for sure now, but I got an idea it was only about £400.

I noted with some sadness, on a completely different scale, that two different UK eBay'ers failed to deliver me a simple windscreen mount, causing much irritation, but one China-man sent it no problem: delivery takes a couple of weeks, but increasingly, I seem to get better service from the Far East; doesn't make me happy to say it, but its true.
Puxa
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49526
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6160
Contact:

Re: Oops!

Post by CitroJim »

Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur wrote: 05 Mar 2018, 17:01 I was watching something or other a while back where one of the largest modern container ships was mentioned; its capacity was simply mind-boggling and apparently the cost of transporting a DVD Player by sea from China, worked out at less than 2 first class stamps.
Economy of scale... Quite amazing really but it's the reason, after questionable quality in some instances, why Far Eastern stuff is so cheap...

Cars have always been expensivew to ship.. I had a Metro shipped home from Cyprus in the 80s and it cost roughly what that 505 did - around a quarter of it's value! It's because a car needs a container of its own generally - maybe two can share - so you're paying for the whole container whereas you can stuff several thousand DVD players in one container...
Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur wrote: 05 Mar 2018, 17:01 I noted with some sadness, on a completely different scale, that two different UK eBay'ers failed to deliver me a simple windscreen mount, causing much irritation, but one China-man sent it no problem: delivery takes a couple of weeks, but increasingly, I seem to get better service from the Far East; doesn't make me happy to say it, but its true.


That is a terrible situation... I must admit I've never had such a problem but I get the feeling a lot of eBay sellers are based in the Far East but with large stocks ready to ship already in the UK.. Their PayPal names tend to suggest that might be the case...

No doubt they have a certain work ethic and wish to succeed with great customer satisfaction even if some of the stuff they shift, in all good faith I'm sure, is of very questionable quality...

As an example, see my post about some audio leads I bought the other day... The service was exemplary, the price very keen but the goods were utter rubbish and good only for the bin.
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Post Reply