Neighbour's Berlingo

[MikeT]

Some of you may recall me asking advice for my neighbour on the hunt for a small van.

Apparently, he's gone and bought a diesel Citroen Berlingo (54 plate I think) and has a few problems, as to be expected.

He complains it's a pig to start in the morning, with tell-tale smoke until warmed up. Immediately I said glowplugs and he tells me he found two new ones in the glove box. (I would have thought they should be in the engine but I've never worked on these vans before )

Rather suprisingly he also tells me the heater only has one temperature - stone cold. Although there is a portable plug-in electric heater in the footwell

Aside from that, I know nothing about these vehicles and he's asked me to take a look sometime and show it my Diagbox.

As such, I'd appreciate any heads up, hints and tips etc regarding this vehicle.

[Peter.N.]

If its an Hdi engine it should start fine without the glow plugs but if its a late IDI engine that could well be the problem. I would suspect someone has by passed the heater because the matrix was leaking, should be able to tell by looking at the pipes behind the engine that go through the bulkhead.

Peter

[Michel]

Mike, if it's an HDi the starting problem *will* be the starter motor. It gets tired, and coupled with cold weather and a cold battery takes ages to get the engine turning fast enough to build up fuel pressure to start. Solution is to fit a new, higher power, lower geared starter from eBay - mine was doing the same, new starter solved it. It's not a hard starter to change though the small connector for the solenoid is different on the higher powered one so you'd need to snip the end of the cable and add a ring connector to it. Easy enough if I can do it...

This exact problem is common on the 2.0 HDi of this age. Well documented over on the Berlingoforum. The new starter was £68.

[Hell Razor5543]

My 2.0 C5 was starting to show tired starter motor symptoms (taking time to get started). I replaced the motor, and it turned the engine over so fast I though the car would turn over as well! I got mine (a reconditioned unit) from GSF, and (because I took back my old motor in the packaging the new motor came in) I also got some money back (I think the total outlay was around £70). As Michel said, I also had to modify the trigger wire, as the old motor had a threaded rod, and the new motor has a spade connector. I just made up a short wire to add on.

Make sure that, if you do swap out the motor, to get the bush from the old one onto the new one (it is in one of the three holes the securing bolts go through), as this is needed to make sure the motor lines up correctly. If it is missing gear teeth are likely to get damaged.

[MikeT]

Thanks for the replies so far. I made an error, it's on a 51 plate.

[myglaren]

As above, I had to have the starter replaced.
I suspect it came from ECP. Many have complained bitterly of starters from ECP not lasting five minutes but mine has been fine.
I entrusted the job to my local Polish mechanic who has invariably been first class in everything he has done.

[CitroJim]

Thanks for the replies so far. I made an error, it's on a 51 plate.

It might just have a DW8 at that age...

Normally an HDi only needs glowplugs, as Peter says, when the brass monkeys have hypothermia and never at British temperatures, even on a day like today... Glow plugs in the HDi only normally post-heat after a start to help with smoother cold running and to cut emissions...

A duff battery and tired starter motor is a good call but would not account for plumes of smoke once initially started..

Does it smoke grey/white smoke when cranking over before it coughs into life?

What colour is the smoke once it does start?

[MikeT]

All symptoms are from a third party and unverified (despite it coming from it's new owner!) so I'll provide more info when I get a looksee. He also said it's dead slow so DW8 it just might be.

[CitroJim]

He also said it's dead slow so DW8 it just might be.

Yep, that sounds like a DW8!

[Michel]

A duff battery and tired starter motor is a good call but would not account for plumes of smoke once initially started..

I have to disagree on that one Jim, on the Berlingo it smoked like hell after cranking slow, then finally starting. I presume some unburnt diesel was getting through somehow. It went away after maybe 30 seconds. Pete now reports his Picasso is having exactly the same starter problems, with the smoke too.

[Michel]

In case anyone else is having this issue - here is the starter that you need, for the HDi 2.0 8v engine, or 2.2 HDi.. it's gone up a bit in price, but this will solve the problem..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-BERL ... 1538343557

[van ordinaire]

I thought Burlies shared mechanicals with the C15 while they were produced side-by-side, in which case even a 54 plate one would have a DW8 - in which case don't even think about buying a starter on line, there's at least 3 different ones! Besides, seems like we're back to glow plugs. Assuming the 2 in the glove-box are new, just fitting them should make a difference.

[Michel]

I thought Burlies shared mechanicals with the C15 while they were produced side-by-side, in which case even a 54 plate one would have a DW8 -

They made the DW8 and 2.0HDi Berlingo at the same time, after early 2002. They continued the DW8 van version until after they'd actually stopped putting the 2.0HDi in the Multispace. I'd imagine if it is dead slow, it'll be a DW8 powered one, and probably needs a new set of glowplugs and the glowplug relay checking out.

That said, I had two R plate Berlingos as company vans way back. I could see an indicated 100mph out of one of them. The other, which was the same age (one was R997 xxx and the other R998 xxx) was so slow on the motorway it was dangerous to venture into the third lane! It ran out of steam at about 75, right in the middle of overtakes.

[CitroJim]

A duff battery and tired starter motor is a good call but would not account for plumes of smoke once initially started..

I have to disagree on that one Jim, on the Berlingo it smoked like hell after cranking slow, then finally starting. I presume some unburnt diesel was getting through somehow. It went away after maybe 30 seconds. Pete now reports his Picasso is having exactly the same starter problems, with the smoke too.

Interesting... Your reasoning is good Mike... Unburned fuel in the combustion chamber and insufficient temperature and pressure generated to ignite it due to low cranking speed...

One thing to do if this is indeed the problem is to change the oil very soon as there may be a possibility that some neat diesel may have ended up in the sump and diluted the oil due to the non-combustion...

[andy5]

I don't know whether this will be of any relevance for later engines, but I had this problem on my old BX 19 RD - difficult to start and run from cold, and then white smoke for a while. No problem at all starting from warm.

Someone introduced me to a local diesel specialist a few miles away down some narrow lanes. He did a compression test then shimmed up some valve clearances.