Aisan auto boxes.

[Gibbo2286]

How good are they, AM6 are they reliable/troublesome/crap?

The more I look at the C5 estate I acquired without the box the less inclined I am to break it, I gave it a bit of a wash and vacuumed out the interior yesterday and it's really a shame it can't be made good again, such a nice car.

The tailgate hadn't been opened for a long time so I had to take the inner trim off and open it from the inside, there in the spare wheel well is the original as brand new spare wheel with Michelin tyre and the tool kit including a warning triangle.

[white exec]

Although a while ago, I had Aisin auto boxes in a couple of Vectra's. They were the best and most intelligent auto box I've ever had, 4-speed with t/c lockup. Did almost 100k on both, and never a problem (unlike the forever-leaking AC). SFAIK, Rolls-Royce used Aisin (is that Aisin-Warner now?) too.

[Gibbo2286]

Yes Chris, Aisin Warner, made in Japan, this one is six speed (or would be if I had one )

[CitroJim]

They suffer from duff solenoids and this requires (at the moment) the full valve block to be replaced at a cost of around £400 for the block.. The job of replacing the valve block is very easy...

Apart from that they give very little trouble, usually. Is your 'box missing completely Gibbo?

[Hell Razor5543]

I think it is the car he found in this thread, Jim;

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57880

[Gibbo2286]

Yes Jim, as I said in my first post about it some dolt of a repairer in Bristol lost it, the guy I bought it off says that it was lost when the repairer made a premises move, he got compensated with a few free repairs on other autos .
Someone over in Norfolk is offering the correct box for it for £200 delivered but the history is vague.

And do I really want the job of putting it all back together................

[CitroJim]

Yes Jim, as I said in my first post about it some dolt of a repairer in Bristol lost it, the guy I bought it off says that it was lost when the repairer made a premises move, he got compensated with a few free repairs on other autos .
Someone over in Norfolk is offering the correct box for it for £200 delivered but the history is vague.

And do I really want the job of putting it all back together................

Sorry, not firing on all cylinders today Should have known that...

£200 for a 'box with no/vague history and the possibility the valve block/solenoids might well need replacing is a bit of a risk I feel... Still, if the car is good then £200 for the gearbox plus £400 the valve block may well be worth it if a god profit can be made of the car at the end or you want it for yourself...

[ekjdm14]

Have to add to this that my experience of Aisin/Aisin-Warner 'boxes has been as someone else said, about the most 'intelligent' box around at it's time & even 150k on were still performing well. This is based on a (very) previous generation, the A340E (Jap answer to ZF 22EH? electronic shift mode control 4+lockup) fitted to my Supra handled over 400bhp even after the aforementioned mileage on the stock 240bhp. (whereas the 4HP22EH in my old 735i's started losing it's clutches at about 150k pretty much as standard with only 218bhp and not much more weight) Also I think the Pajero had a similar unit that I liked.

If valve block trouble is the only real issue currently known, I'd say they're still making good stuff. As Jim says, even if the valve block was duff you'd still have an '06 C5 estate in clean condition for £750 plus your time (which I gather you'd likely write off as it's a hobby for you anyway).

If I was in that position, I'd be tempted. Potentially cheaper option could even be to find a box with known solenoid issues for a few quid & fix that up... (there was a "working/tested" one on ebay, not sure if the right part # that was 200 quid delivered with 30 day warranty, not sure if that'd help?)

EDIT- after all this gearbox talk, I'm now 100% sure that 2nd is slipping pretty badly on Black. Hasn't got noticeably worse but on acceleration it's like you have 2x first gear & then into 3rd, on the downshift you can tell when 2nd selects because the engine drops back to idle until it drops into 1st when it lurches a little as engine braking is regained) :/ fluid is still acceptable colour but slightly off-smelling... I have a feeling I need to find a supplier of ZF bits pretty soon!)

[Gibbo2286]

I think it's likely that I'll pop the car on Ebay with some nice photos and see if I can tempt a younger enthusiast with it.

According to the MOT history site it's only done 64k miles.
It has the 138 16 valve engine and all the bits taken off seem to be there, drive shafts, starter motor and all the plastic covers, nuts and bolts, etc.

[Gibbo2286]

The box on Ebay with 30 day warranty is the one I was looking at but the seller didn't respond to an enquiry about its mileage or if it has the torque converter included.

The seller put a picture of the car in his listing, I've just checked the MOT history and at the last MOT it had 135k miles on it so that's not going to be worth the gamble.

[NewcastleFalcon]

I have first hand experience of the Aisin Warner 6-Speed box fitted to a Vectra (same one fitted to C5 wiki article here), which in general is excellent and has provided to date 120,000 miles of good service since a rebuild due to water/coolant ingress either from driving through floodwater or the original cooler which was routed through the radiator on the Vectra.

At some point, when it wears out again I will be faced with a dilemma of scrap or paddle around looking for a replacement box as you are doing. The odds for me would definitely be in favour of scrapping. Massive effort to get the old box out in the first place (although that doesn't apply in your case!), and either a challenge or a nightmare to source a better replacement and no way of proving it until you had reassembled the lot, and done whatever needs doing with the Transmission ECU to get it working. The refill with correct spec fluid will be costly enough!

Regards Neil

[van ordinaire]

The Cherokee's AW4 trans is actually an Aisin: until I trashed, as I thought, the green one's, they were considered indestructable. Seems the split cooler line dumped 3/4 of the fluid & the pump seized from lack of lubrication; they're only £200 - but we're going to pull the one out the parts car & put that in.

There is a wonderful irony in an American icon having a Japanese auto-trans, of all things.

[CitroJim]

There is a wonderful irony in an American icon having a Japanese auto-trans, of all things.

Just as French cars always traditionally used German (ZF and Siemens) autoboxes before turning Japanese...

I have a belief, that like the Lucas (Rotodiesel) diesel pump, ZF 'boxes used in French cars were made under license in France. Not sure if that still applies to the A-W 'boxes...

[cachaciero]

Interesting thread, keep looking at C5's not overly happy with the Lexus

[jgra1]

I may list my soon Tony, not sure at the moment..
it is too good for what I need really, but all depends on what I end up doing next workwise...

John (local if you want to look over it)