Electric vehicles-Conversions
Moderator: RichardW
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc
That's interesting Neil. The cost must be horrific, although probably not to someone with their sort of turnover. If they don't know what to to with the old batteries they can put me down for one.
They have battery back back up on the Orkney system but theirs were in shipping containers so not quite as big.
Peter
They have battery back back up on the Orkney system but theirs were in shipping containers so not quite as big.
Peter
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc
Nice bit of oppurtunism from TESLA, not without a touch of irony, in that the company awarding them the contract are Southern Californian Edison, and Tesla are selling them a DC Battery!Peter.N. wrote:That's interesting Neil. The cost must be horrific, although probably not to someone with their sort of turnover.
Peter
The world of really big business, involves lots of really big investment with no guarantee of future revenues. TESLA obviouslly aren't running a corner shop....it would have closed down by now after a few years of net losses.
Here's a nice little graph from wiki(Pheonix7777) (creative commons under this licencehttps://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/deed.en )
The source, is the wonderfully detailed United States Securities and Exchange Commission Form 10-K ie Tesla's annual report and accounts.
There really is loads of information which has to be declared by the Company particularly in relation to an assessment of risks facing the business. Is it worth a deposit in The Pickled Egg Library though?....................
....of course it is.......just the sort of limited appeal oddity you would expect the PE to cater for
Regards Neil
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc
Bobbins wrote - "Run away, very fast, climb over bodies if you need to"
Reminds me of a tee shirt on the back of which was written "I am a bomb disposal expert. If you see me running, try to keep up".
Covers the "very fast" in the quote .
Regards
Reminds me of a tee shirt on the back of which was written "I am a bomb disposal expert. If you see me running, try to keep up".
Covers the "very fast" in the quote .
Regards
Regards, Harry
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2000 Nov Forte HDI 110 hatch in Wicked Red; currently SORN
2000 Mar Exclusive HDI hatch in Quartz; currently SORN
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- NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc
Back to the world of DIY for a moment,
A cautionary tale of over-enthusiasm perhaps.
I dont know the outcome, but this gentleman....lets call him Tim Pootle...posted this up on the Speak-EV forum....
Unless of course you have ambitions of a 300 mile range Berlingo which the market cannot supply you with at the moment!
Now I have to plead ignorance here never having bought anytjing off e-bay....but.....surely this gentleman's offer was never ever going to sell for the price he was looking for....
make your own mind up....
A cautionary tale of over-enthusiasm perhaps.
I dont know the outcome, but this gentleman....lets call him Tim Pootle...posted this up on the Speak-EV forum....
Now while Tesla and Nissan can source Lithium-ion Batteries for their vehicles at prices to enable their cars to be profitable, the average DIY'er simply can't.I am selling my converted Berlingo Electrique. Details on eBay and batteryvehiclesociety.org.uk forum
Electric Berlingo van vehicle lithium battery 300 mile range | eBay
timpootle,Mar 11, 2015
Unless of course you have ambitions of a 300 mile range Berlingo which the market cannot supply you with at the moment!
Now I have to plead ignorance here never having bought anytjing off e-bay....but.....surely this gentleman's offer was never ever going to sell for the price he was looking for....
make your own mind up....
Regards NeilOriginal E-Bay Listing http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-Berl ... 675.l2557/
The bottom line-for a 1998 Berlingo Van! The lising is entitled...."“Scruffy 15 year old van with very big battery”
Costs new:
Cells £30,000
BMS £1,500
type 2 lead £70
van,motor,controller £800
IM axle £400
front battery box £70
sundries £400???
time £????
Asking for £29,000 all in, ONO
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 30 Jan 2017, 19:53, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc
Ouch! That is serious money indeed...
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc
I can't really see him selling it at that price unless someone with plenty of money wants it for interest or to use the installation in something else.
Jim.
Did you see the picture of my old electric truck posted earlier on this thread?
Peter
Jim.
Did you see the picture of my old electric truck posted earlier on this thread?
Peter
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc
Yes, I did. I meant to comment at the time as I well remember a small fleet of them running around the site where I work for many years back along...Peter.N. wrote: Jim.
Did you see the picture of my old electric truck posted earlier on this thread?
Peter
When we were apprentices we used to love hijacking them and hiding them from their legitimate users... They didn't always appreciate it when they went out and couldn't find their truck...
Jim
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc
I remember our local milkman in Ealing using a "pedestrian" milk truck in the '50s/early '60s. It has two rear wheels wide apart at the rear, and a pair close together at the front, plus a downward curved control and steering handle at the front, which also operated as a dead-man's handle. Had a rotary switch in the front panel for fwd/rev/off.
Chris
Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc
I think the main reason why net income is still negative (at least between 2014 - 2015 in the graph - I think things have improved since then) is because they are investing in building literally the biggest battery production facility in the world. When it is completed it will have more output capacity in lithium ion cells than the entire rest of the world production, which is quite staggering.NewcastleFalcon wrote: The world of really big business, involves lots of really big investment with no guarantee of future revenues. TESLA obviouslly aren't running a corner shop....it would have closed down by now after a few years of net losses.
Here's a nice little graph from wiki(Pheonix7777) (creative commons under this licencehttps://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/deed.en )
The source, is the wonderfully detailed United States Securities and Exchange Commission Form 10-K ie Tesla's annual report and accounts.
Nobody else like Panasonic (who manufactured all Tesla's cells before that) has the output capacity to ramp up to the quantity of batteries needed to meet the number of Model 3's that have been pre-ordered and get them shipped in time. If they don't build their own battery mass production facility they simply won't be able to ship the Model 3 in quantity on time, or get the car down to a mass market price level. (I'm sure the model 3 will be 6-12 months late at least but it should at least ship in volume when it does arrive with batteries available for it)
Of course the cost of building the factory is massive and is a huge short term gamble financially if it doesn't pay off. But if they get the factory up to full production and get the Model 3 out the door in numbers not too soon after promised then they will be golden and the risk will have paid off.
Of course if they have any excess production capacity it can be put into power walls and other battery contracts like Californian Edison - I can actually envisage a time in the next 10 years where Tesla makes more money from selling battery technology than actual cars - and I'm OK with that as long as they keep making great cars and pushing the boundaries there as well!
Simon
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc
You may have to take my word for it....but there is plenty of interest in the seemingly dry as sticks Form 10K on Tesla.
This is part of what form 10K declares on the Gigafactory
This is part of what form 10K declares on the Gigafactory
Regards Neil.We are developing the Gigafactory as a facility where we work together with our suppliers to integrate battery material, cell, module and battery pack production in one location. We plan to use the battery packs manufactured at the Gigafactory for our vehicles and for our Tesla Energy applications. We broke ground on the Gigafactory in June 2014 and began assembling our Tesla Energy products in the first portion of the facility in the fourth quarter of 2015.
We currently expect to produce cells at the Gigafactory beginning in 2016 for use initially in our Tesla Energy products and later for our vehicles. The Gigafactory is currently expected to attain full production capacity in 2020, which is anticipated to be sufficient for the production of approximately 500,000 vehicles annually as well as for the production of our energy storage products. By that time, we expect battery pack production capacity to reach 50 GWh. Of this, we expect to build 35 GWh of cell production capacity at the Gigafactory and purchase 15 GWh of cells from other manufacturers.
We believe that the Gigafactory will allow us to achieve a significant reduction in the cost of our battery packs once we are in volume production with Model 3. The total capital expenditures associated with the Gigafactory through 2020 are expected to be $4 to $5 billion, of which approximately $2 billion is expected to come from Tesla. Panasonic has agreed to partner with us on the Gigafactory with investments in production equipment that it will use to manufacture and supply us with battery cells. We have a supply agreement with Panasonic that, among other things, allows us to purchase a minimum of 1.8 billion lithium-ion battery cells at preferential prices that we intend to purchase from 2014 through 2017. We have agreed to prepare and provide the land, buildings and utilities, invest in production equipment for battery module and pack production and be responsible for the overall management of the Gigafactory.
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc
Ever wondered what the Gigafactory looks like?Mandrake wrote:
Of course if they have any excess production capacity it can be put into power walls and other battery contracts like Californian Edison - I can actually envisage a time in the next 10 years where Tesla makes more money from selling battery technology than actual cars - and I'm OK with that as long as they keep making great cars and pushing the boundaries there as well!
https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/gigafactory
Its still under construction in Nevada but its first output is indeed the "Powerwall".
This website has many articles on it and recent images released by Tesla of the site in Nevada
https://electrek.co/guides/tesla-gigafactory/
Regards Neil
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc
Gosh! Now this does look like a properly massive factory if the wind turbines are to scale... Must be on its way to being one of the biggest buildings in the world I'd guess...
Just checked and it already has the largest 'footprint'
This Wikipedia list of biggest buildings makes interesting reading... Surprised to see the NEC so high in the list but when walking around it for the Classic Car Show I ought to have realised it's pretty massive...
Just checked and it already has the largest 'footprint'
This Wikipedia list of biggest buildings makes interesting reading... Surprised to see the NEC so high in the list but when walking around it for the Classic Car Show I ought to have realised it's pretty massive...
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
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- white exec
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1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc
IPEX (international printing exhibition) at NEC, every four years, fills the entire place. Did several one-week stints on Agfa's stand there. Exhausting!
Chris
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In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars. - x 1199
Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc
Are they solar panels on the roof, almost enough to run the factory I would think.
Peter
Peter
Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc
Their goal is to have the entire roof covered in solar panels by the time it is fully constructed, yes, and I believe that it does work out to be sufficient to run the whole operation.
It's not for no reason that they chose somewhere like the Nevada desert...
It's not for no reason that they chose somewhere like the Nevada desert...
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive